FrSky Ethos - A new programming environment is coming!

[Wayne]

First a bit of History
When FrSky started to offer the Taranis X9D, their first transmitter, they wanted to have a very powerful programming capability for the radio. They could have done like other companies and offered a menu driven program. That would have been the safe thing to do, but instead they selected the little known OpenTX for their radios. I for one was not all that excited about this choice at the time, I found it difficult and very different. I wasn't sure if this was a good idea, but very quickly I feel in love with it and I did my best to help others learn the system.

Let's face it, OpenTX is rather alien when you come from another brand of radio. It takes some study to learn it's ways, but soon enough most people will learn the basics and enjoy their radios. Some people really dive deep into OpenTX and become masters, able to do just about anything they can think up, but the typical user can get by, but probably has a bit of fear of messing things up.

Over time FrSky and OpenTX gain acceptance in the hobby thanks to the rock solid nature of the radios and the power of OpenTX combined with very good prices. As they push more and more into mainstream hobby we hear plenty of comments from pilots wondering if a simple version of OpenTX will ever be developed. Many recognize the OpenTX weaknesses and try to develop manuals, online universities, and publish 1000's of Youtube videos. It is still confusing for many. Heck, at Aloft we ended with a professional manual for OpenTX and keep it up-to-date with constant revisions. No easy task for an Opensource product.

Eventually FrSky developed the Horus radios with the large color screens. OpenTX was great and jumped at the opportunity to give OpenTX a much better look. This was a very welcome update, but the programming remained the same, just with some more color. FrSky also offered a new environment they called FrOS on the Horus radios. Users could select to run the Horus radios on OpenTX or on FrOS. FrOS was FrSky's first attempt to make a menu driven system. It worked pretty well, and many people liked how easy it was to use. It was a good first attempt.

Here comes Ethos
Now we are all about to see the next evolution for the FrSky radios, and for these radios FrSky will be introducing a new operating system called Ethos. This is a brand new system developed by FrSky for FrSky users. It is not a reworking of OpenTX or FrOs, but a 100% new system. From the very start it was asked what would you want if you were starting from scratch? Over and over people have been asking for an easy but powerful programming environment. While that sounds simple, how do you do that?

First you bring a team of both professionals and some novice users, you make sure you have a wide cross section that represents as much of the hobby as you can, and you start discussing ideas with the programmers. You doodle out some drawings and you start refining those rough ideas. Best of all, your programmers are also in the hobby, so they are invested in making the best product for the hobby they can. They work hard long hours and they then provide samples for testing and feedback. This is the current status we find Ethos in today.

FrSky is starting to share some looks at Ethos and the prototypes of the new radios with the public as a few rounds of beta testing continue. This is still very early stages, the radios will change, and Ethos has a lot of testing still. Not sure when these will be available, so please don't ask just yet.

 

[taggarc]

I don't believe FRSKY could make anything easy (look at their website, manuals - sorry badly written pamphlets) and the business ethos around Access and how it was implemented. In short, I wouldn't trust them to make anything easy and do it for the right reasons (consumer as opposed to business driven ) and I think a lot of people are similarly minded . They have become more Horizon Hobby like with the passing of each day - which is ironic because being different: innovative, open and customer driven - was what attracted me to FrSKY and away from HH in the first place

 

[Konrad]

I will try to keep an open mind.

When I learned of OpenTX I was ecstatic that much of what we lost with the demise of the Multiplex Profi 4000mc radio was back. That was we weren't constrained by menus. The power of OpenTX was/is in the mixers. Not what some programer decide we wanted in the menus. I hope that FrSky doesn't have the master/slave concept that is the norm for todays radios. This is fundamentally wrong and very limiting. I understand maybe having some canned programs for most beginners and sport pilots. But I want to be able to program my way out of real world constraints with the power of the programing. That is I want the program to set me free, not constrain me to prearranged menus.

Now I'm NOT a power OpenTX user. I think I've only programed 5 or so models from scratch. But please don't constrain me to menus. I want to still be able to define what and how the mixers interact.

As to documentation FrSky has historically been a minimalist company. The pamphlets said only what needed to be said but failed to give any direction as to the what and why of the feature. This left a lot of radio power unavailable to most FrSky users. If this or any new program is to succeed it needs proper documentation.

Wayne I know you have to soft pedal the FOS. But let's be honest, it was a disaster both from the perspective of the program's flexibility to allow developers to change the program as need be. But also as a tool for the end user. I have to give FrSky credit for realizing it was/is a disaster and is abandoning this program. Now I hope FrSky will be listening to folks like you, who have been dealing with the customers, and grow this new OS Ethos to meet the customer's needs and expectations.

As a FrSky customer since 2014 I hope FrSky can still give us products that really differentiate themselves from what the other guys offer, be the other guys Spektrum or Jumper.

This will be the make or break point for FrSky. The product needs to be quantum shift from what the other guys offer. FrSky did this with OpenTX, I really hope they can do it again with Ethos.

 

[Wayne]

Time will tell just how good or bad Ethos will be. I know what I wanted it to be, I have yet to play with a sample of what they have created. I know they have the ability and need to make something amazing here.

@taggarc - FrSky has always done their own things, and sometimes these things were not good, they have always been quick to make repairs or adjustments as needed. As they have grown larger, it has been a little harder for them to turn on a dime, but it seems like they still listen and respond. I'm excited by little things like the proper use of a USB-C port on these newest radios. The reality is FrSky has never been what you perceived, they have never been open. Innovative, I think is fair, but not open. They used an OpenSopurce firmware, but that does not make it an open system.

Open RC systems - I don't know how a radio company would survive with a 100% open system. There would simply be no profits to be had, it would be a race to the cheapest hardware as countless manufacturers will jump into the game if a dollar can be made. Company A will start off and build some market, but then company B comes along and says, hmm, my staff don't need to eat on Fridays, so I can make this a little cheaper, then company C comes along and notices they have access to some low tolerance parts that will allow them to make 2 dollars, so they jump into the game.. Before you know it consumers are paying almost nothing, they are buying garbage and there is no R&D happening to further the product line. Perhaps I am wrong, rumor has it there will be a few OpenRF systems in the future, maybe they will prove me wrong.

So yes, FrSky brought a different approach to most everything they did. It is easy to pick on them for lack of manuals and such, but keep in mind you paid 40% to 95% less than the other name brands for similar products. To be clear, I often times compare a $100 FrSky to something closer to the $1000 mark from the other name brands and IMHO the FrSky still comes out on top.

Also - I'm not sure how much to you have to trust FrSky to do the programming, they hired outside the company for this project. And I AGREE with you, FrSky's internal programming is a large weakness, we all can see this. They have a lot of products and a smallish team to support them all. But that smallish team may be one of the largest in the hobby industry.

 

[HENNY]

Great start let's see what becomes available and how flexible the new product is. I hope the screen and a touch screen interface.

 

[thenated0g]

My first radio was some crap hobbyking branded ...turnidy 9x? cant remember. I could never figure out how to work it myself i had to always watch a video. So moving to frsky opentx was great. I remember how nice it was to finally know how to do whatever i wanted in the field without a manual or internet connection. Im sure it will be a learning curve but looking forward to them when it comes out.

 

[Wayne]

Henny it will have a touch screen, but as I understand it you can also use it with buttons on the radio. I'm not a big fan of touch on radios, especially for pilots that are running glow fuels, but this one is designed from the start for touch, so should be decent.

This radio should be simple enough to get the basics without ever needing to jump to a manual or a video. That was the entire goal of this thing for me. I had also hopped it would have a built in manual, just push a little "?" symbol and the radio would pop up a dialogue with details about the operation you are currently on. I don't think that will be in there at the start, but I do hope it will be added over time. Especially to explain things like Differential, Crow, Camber, or complex mixing and logic items. I don't think everything needs a popup. Maybe those popups have a little animation, etc. I know.. pie in the sky thinking.

 

[Hans]

Wayne,

Any idea about backwards compatibility? Or is this a total new direction of the future FrSky brand. Or are they going to have 2 different lines of products, 1 Ethos 2 OpenTX.

 

[HENNY]

Hans as I understand it Ethos replaces FRos, while Opentx is not an FRsky operating system. It would be interesting if the newer radios had enough memory to run a dual boot system.

 

[Konrad]

Wayne,

Any idea about backwards compatibility? Or is this a total new direction of the future FrSky brand. Or are they going to have 2 different lines of products, 1 Ethos 2 OpenTX.

Looking at how FrSky has been wanting to kill the clones. I don't think there will be much chance of backwards compatibility. I'm all but sure that the new OS will use new hardware to give us the many "great" new features. (read shut off the clones). There is nothing wrong with FrSky wanting NOT to share this new OS and Hardware with thieves.

 

[HENNY]

Maybe not Konrad, the Ethos web site has images of the Horus Express radios so hardware maybe expanded.

 

[Konrad]

Images, pictures so what? I'm sure those are a lot like what we saw with ACCESS, AKA development models. Now FrSky may support the Horus line with hardware updates, if these are needed.

Not that there is anything wrong with OpenTX, but I'm sure FrSky doesn't want to be held hostage to OpenTX should the unthinkable happen and there is a falling out between OpenTX and FrSky.

FrSky knows their Achilles heal is OpenTX. It is also their strongest feature, OpenTX.

From a corporate structure perspective it is wise to get control over this problem. Buy out OpenTX. Not likely as it is open sources. Or develop an in house answer to OpenTX. FOS was a failed attempt. I hope FrSky can learn and build form that disaster.

Add to this what we know about FrSky's concern for the clone, and it is only logical that the new OS not be backwards compatible (well, not as a full feature product).

 

[Scott Page]

FrSky is completely blind what an essential aspect OpenTx is to their very existence. They see OpenTX as an oversized anchor that will sink their ship and they are looking to jettison OpenTX.

FrSky has no intention of cooperating on OpenTX development for the X20 radio (or possibly all future radios). Without Frsky's cooperation I don't see the the developers creating OpenTX for the X20. Perhaps if there was a substantial influx of money (crowdfunded) so the developers (how many are there) have a radio with which to work. In the past radio schematics have been provided by FrSky. This is apparently not the case with the X20 so they would now have to be reverse engineered. But what's the motivation for the developers to continue supporting FrSky if FrSky is not cooperating and supporting the developers.

I'm afraid FrSky is going to relegate themselves to a niche market again as they were prior to 2014.

 

[HENNY]

You are both a bit negative on this possible development. Maybe it will lead to something really good. Maybe not. Lets see if FRsky can pull a rabbit out of a large hat.

 

[Kilrah]

The OS will almost certainly be good. But based on FrSky's past 2 years or so it's how it will integrate in the product stack and with the things people use, and whether they can convince people to start from scratch with yet another system that is likely to be more of a concern for its success.

Along with the fact that instead of competing in a market segment they've created and been at the top of they'll be against the "big boys"... along with their documentation, dealer networks and customer support where FrSky's leaves a lot to be desired, probably putting them at the bottom of that segment.

IMO the OS core is not where the battle's at in the first place.

The reason OpenTX is open is precisely that it's out there, hardware that can run it can be easily designed in a couple of weeks and as such there's always going to be a way to run something you know without having to learn something new regardless of what manufacturers come and go. And that work can be assigned to making improvements that continuously build upon each other instead of wasting time throwing everything out and starting over again every time.

 

[Konrad]

You are both a bit negative on this possible development. Maybe it will lead to something really good. Maybe not. Lets see if FRsky can pull a rabbit out of a large hat.

What negativity? I'm just pointing out that Frsky has been horrible with their own software be it at the hardware level (firmware) or at the OS level with the FOS. I have to agree with Kilrah about the piss poor documentation from FrSky.

I'm not sure I agree with Kilrah on what differentiates FrSky from the big boys. I know that the reason I went with FrSky was because of OpenTX. It was so much more logical than any of the OS interfaces being used by the big boys. It was very much like the OS used by the top tier supplier Multiplex in their 1990 Profi 4000mc.

Like I said I hope they can pull it off. Looking at their track record I highly doubt it. But we can hope. Also looking at their desire to break the clone market I'm sure it won't be amenable to being backwards compatible.

 

[Konrad]

...The reason OpenTX is open is precisely that it's out there, hardware that can run it can be easily designed in a couple of weeks and as such there's always going to be a way to run something you know without having to learn something new regardless of what manufacturers come and go. And that work can be assigned to making improvements that continuously build upon each other instead of wasting time throwing everything out and starting over again every time.

So OpenTX can be added to just about any TX with some simple hardware add ons? That would be great. A Jeti/OpenTX combo would be a giant killer! I thought that OpenTX needed access to the TX core code. As such most OEMs didn't want to share this with an Open source project as legal protection (NDA) would be all but impossible to police, if all the developers have access to the inner workings of the radio.

I think this is one of the core issues with the cloning. That is FrSky has no recourse against what they might see as a violation of an NDA. If they can keep the whole process in house there is less of a chance that the code will find its way into the clone market.

Like I said I really think this new FrSky OS Ethos and ACCESS are all aimed at breaking the clone market. I agree with you, in this segment of the market (low cost) FrSky was the biggest most powerful player. I think they tried to move up into the higher end market with the Horus line and fell flat on their face. (Much of this was because of the poor FOS that came with the Horus). While the Horus was a bit better quality that the Taranis it was a lot less powerful than the Taranis running OpenTX. The market saw that and shunned the Horus. Like you said why would the customer coming from Jr/Spektrum or Futaba want to learn FOS only to find it was less powerful than OpenTX. If giving the time to learn a "new" OS one would want to know it was substantially better than the system one was currently comfortable with. FOS was a bit more comfortable for those that came from the menu driven OS but being so inferior to OPEN TX, it died in the market place!

I hope FrSky has done their due diligence in identifying what the market needs. But like you I think they have missed the core issue.

 

[Kilrah]

So OpenTX can be added to just about any TX with some simple hardware add ons?

What? Not at all. I mentioned anyone can easily design a board/radio that's able to run it, nothing to do with existing hardware. Porting to existing hardware is possible but tedious without access to documentation, and since it's so easy to make your own and that so many people/companies do so now it's not worth bothering anymore.

The whole clone debate is irrelevant, with the tech, hardware and software we have now nobody needs to "clone" something, anyone can do something of their own easily. It is just not hard to do a radio nowadays, at all. That's why the whole shenanigans about cloning, "protecting IP" etc is a whole load of nonsense. What's hard and expensive is the mechanical stuff, cases, gimbals etc and the others have no problem doing that. With what we have now for the electronics side of things one qualified and motivated engineer could do an entire board design, including RF, adapt OpenTX to it, take a generic RF module and make their own RF protocol from scratch based on by now ubiquitously known principles in a month or 2.

Nobody needs to have things from someone like FrSky to copy to be able to compete.

(Much of this was because of the poor FOS that came with the Horus). While the Horus was a bit better quality that the Taranis it was a lot less powerful that the Taranis running OpenTX.

Even if it was as nightlies OpenTX was available on Horus pretty much from day 1.

 

[Wayne]

Agree and disagree.

Clones are a large problem. While a simple clone company would not be that bad, but FrSky has 3 aggressive clone companies that seem hell bent on damaging FrSky with constant attacks and rumors via their social media cronies. Anything to gain a sale. FrSky has been an easy victim as they do not play these games and do not "sponsor" people just because they have a large social media audience. They do not give kick backs on sales of products, etc. I will give them the nod for that. Perhaps they should just to even the field. (I'm glad they don't.)

Anyhow, let's get back on subject.

Ethos will not be backwards compatible with anything.

Ethos is being created in part by the key developer of OpenTX. One of the main programmers for Ethos was the main programmer for OpenTX.

The goals for Ethos are different from the goals of OpenTX, Ethos goals are drawn up based on real life experiences with OpenTX.

This is part of the ongoing evolution of FrSky and their radios.

 

[Konrad]

What? Not at all. I mentioned anyone can easily design a board/radio that's able to run it, nothing to do with existing hardware. Porting to existing hardware is possible but tedious without access to documentation, and since it's so easy to make your own and that so many people/companies do so now it's not worth bothering anymore.

That was what I feared. That one would need to start a whole new TX with all the cost associated with it, when it comes certification and marketing . Are there a lot of companies that make full feature TX with a competent engineering house to support the TX?