Soaring USA gift certificate (Strega purchase?)

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Konrad

Active member
Jan 23, 2018
755
44
San Francisco
#1
Hello Guys (and maybe Gals),

I’ve acquired $100 gift certificate from working the 2018 ISR from Soaring USA. My hope was to use this to pay for the shipping and taxes to buy a 60” MOM Racer. It pains me to say that Soaring USA only stocks one 60” plane I would want and at the same time risk MOM racing. For issues that don’t amount to anything here, I got from Aloft Hobbies a Mibo Dart III for my 60” fix.

This still leaves that gift certificate un-used. I see where Soaring USA has a 40% off sale on some older (obsolete) stuff. These were the hot ticket when I left slope soaring around the turn of the millennium. I recall being in love with the Ascot, and Pike Precision. The only 3 meter (close) slope ship I’ve actually owned and flown was an FVK Brisk III (I still have one with an electric motor fuselage). What I’m looking for is a powerful F3F type “sport” plane. I’d like to ask what has passed the test of time?

As a sport ship the RCRCM Strega is looking like a good “value” at $700 for a sport ship. BUT….
I’ve noticed the RCRCM models are generally a far cry from the quality I’m use to from my FVK models. Many folks won’t have an RCRCM model in their fleet unless it is advertised as a carbon lay up. This is because the epoxy used and the glass often make for rather "flexible” models. It is hoped that that carbon might bring the airframe some needed stiffness (still not to current standards for a carbon ship).

The Stregas I’ve seen fly, all looked to NOT groove in the turns. (I’ve learned that RCRCM wanted the Strega to be an F3B ship and as a result really messed up the force arrangement for the airfoil being used. (most speed ships [modern airfoils] need little or no incidence at speed). Again trying to make the Strega something it isn’t the leading edge of the airfoil was grossly mistreated.

I’m thinking that resetting the stab by lifting the LE 2mm might help with the incidence induced ballooning in a turn. Not sure what the resultant raked hinge line will do. As to the airfoil I keep hearing Wayne telling me whenever I buy a moldie from him; “Don’t be afraid to uglify the LE to make a better flying model". He was saying that it was beneficial to remove the LE part line even if the paint was some what disturbed. I’m wondering if I can uglify Strega’s LE to gain back some of the F3F performance lost by the manufacture.

I’m leaning towards the Strega only because of its cost. Historically I’ve rarely been happy with this reasoning when making my purchases.

Are the other $2000 plus ships a good value at 40% off? Or at that price point ($2000 plus) should I step up to some of the current models. I love flying the heavy ships. I just know I’m not at the piloting level to extract the performance from a modern F3F ship. I can fly them just fine, just can’t extract there full performance potential. This even goes for the Strega.

So what to I do with the Soaring USA $100 gift certificate burning a hole in my wallet?
Maybe just get a servo or two!
https://www.soaringusa.com/Sale-Items-30-OFF/

Edit; Yep I cleaned out Soaring USA's new old stock of Stegas'. As of Dec 6, 2018 Soaring USA still has parts for the Strega
 
Last edited:
Dec 13, 2017
329
20
Taiwan
#2
Hi Konrad - I designed this model quite a few years ago now.

The aerofoil was one of my early ones but is still quite good - but YES RCRCM changed the design - without telling me by the way - to give it incidence as "The model won't fly at all unless it has incidence" See what I was as dealing with.

With the tailplane modified to 1.5 mm raised leading edge it has done 30 seconds flat at F3f in an official race - not practice.

Yes the construction is a bit of a throw of the dice with RCRCM - you might be lucky and get a Wednesday plane or unlucky and get a Monday one. Don't get a Friday one!

With the mods its fast enough to do well at the ISR as long as you do a lot of practice with it. Kyle Pruett has one actually.

Anyway its really easy to fly and probably a good deal for the price.

Cheers,

Doc.
 

Konrad

Active member
Jan 23, 2018
755
44
San Francisco
#3
Doc thanks for the reply.

Say WHAT! RCRCM actually said this; "The model won't fly at all unless it has incidence” ? Even taking into account errors in translation. This is a scary comment from RCRCM! This puts their whole product line into question! I “fly" models with zero zero and zero camber.

As you know I think airplane design is airfoil design. Did RCRCM change the airfoil to add incidence (raise the leading edge)? If so them the product they produced is not the product you designed. Unless you signed off on the changes, RCRCM should not be associating you with the design as you didn’t design what they are making. And to a lesser extent the same goes for the force arrangement actual incidence. (That’s the way I see it, otherwise it is what we in the west would call slander):mad:

So I have to ask to the best of your knowledge is RCRCM using your airfoils on the Strega? If not can I sand down the front of the wing to get back some resemblance of your airfoil. Maybe even relay some carbon so that the fibers tie the top and bottom wing skins together. And then block sand the LE back to something close to your airfoil.

Assuming that the airfoil is something close to what you designed. I’d like to ask what penalties would there be with the discontinuities between the fuselage and stab as a result of the repositioning of the tail. I recall the Horton brothers doing some work on the “middle effect”. I’m thinking (don’t know) that the bottom of the V might respond a bit like the middle effect. This is kind of like surface junction drag. So the short of it is, should I flair the fuse to stab discontinuity with some epoxy and cabosile?

The Strega “might” be a good value, I’m just not sure she would make me happy. But for $700 how far wrong could I go? (Don’t answer that :rolleyes:)! Anybody else have any comments on the other Soaring USA 40% off F3B & F3F ships.

TIA,
Konrad
 
Last edited:

Konrad

Active member
Jan 23, 2018
755
44
San Francisco
#4
...
With the tailplane modified to 1.5 mm raised leading edge it has done 30 seconds flat at F3f in an official race - not practice.
...

Cheers,

Doc.
Looking for a bit of clairification, "Lifting the LE 1.5mm". Does this mean allowing the stab to pivot (rotate) around the carbon joiner 1.5mm at the LE? Rasing the LE would drop the TE by more than 1.5mm.

I've read that some are moving the alignment pins 1.5mm. So at the LE the movement would actually be a bit more than the 1.5mm.

Sorry for asking these technical question when I don't even have a Strega to work with.

All the best,
Konrad
 
Dec 13, 2017
329
20
Taiwan
#5
Hi Konrad - I designed this model quite a few years ago now.

The aerofoil was one of my early ones but is still quite good - but YES RCRCM changed the design - without telling me by the way - to give it incidence as "The model won't fly at all unless it has incidence" See what I was as dealing with.

With the tailplane modified to 1.5 mm raised leading edge it has done 30 seconds flat at F3f in an official race - not practice.

Yes the construction is a bit of a throw of the dice with RCRCM - you might be lucky and get a Wednesday plane or unlucky and get a Monday one. Don't get a Friday one!

With the mods its fast enough to do well at the ISR as long as you do a lot of practice with it. Kyle Pruett has one actually.

Anyway its really easy to fly and probably a good deal for the price.

Cheers,

Doc.
Doc thanks for the reply.

Say WHAT! RCRCM actually said this; "The model won't fly at all unless it has incidence” ? Even taking into account errors in translation. This is a scary comment from RCRCM! This put their whole product line into question! I “fly" models with zero zero and zero camber.

As you know I think airplane design is airfoil design. Did RCRCM change the airfoil to add incidence (raise the leading edge)? If so them the product they produced is not the product you designed. Unless you signed off on the changes, RCRCM should not be associating you with the design as you didn’t design what they are making. And to a lesser extent the same goes for the force arrangement actual incidence. (That’s the way I see it, otherwise it is what we in the west would call slander):mad:

So I have to ask to the best of your knowledge is RCRCM using your airfoils on the Strega? If not can I sand down the front of the wing to get back some resemblance of your airfoil. Maybe even relay some carbon so that the fibers tie the top and bottom wing skins together. And then block sand the LE back to something close to your airfoil.

Assuming that the airfoil is something close to what you designed. I’d like to ask what penalties would there be with the discontinuities between the fuselage and stab as a result of the repositioning of the tail. I recall the Horton brothers doing some work on the “middle effect”. I’m thinking (don’t know) that the bottom of the V might respond a bit like the middle effect. This is kind of like surface junction drag. So the short of it is, should I flair the fuse to stab discontinuity with some epoxy and cabosile?

The Strega “might” be a good value, I’m just not sure she would make me happy. But for $700 how far wrong could I go? (Don’t answer that :rolleyes:)! Anybody else have any comments on the other Soaring USA 40% off F3B & F3F ships.

TIA,
Konrad
Hi Konrad,
OK one by one: RCRCM changing my designs without telling me, (Strega Typhoon, Sigma III) and also making designs they had promised not to (Tomcat - was "Wildfire) even making those that were not actually designs just concepts (Minivec) was a cornerstone of my reasons for dumping them. The other reason was funnier: "The owners of RCRCM have a new policy of only using world champions to design their model line" When I asked which one? they replied "There are many" All water under the bridge now and even quite amusing but very annoying at the time.

However I am sure they did use my aerofoils because they simply had no others. Most of the models by me and quite a few others by RCRCM all used my aerofoils actually.

What I did to change the incidence was exactly as you describe. I worked out that to change the 2 degrees that they put in, I had to move the front of the aerofoil up by 1.5mm (I just checked) using the 6mm joiner as a pivot. As I remember here is no rear pin, only one in the front. So I filled the holes with epoxy, re-rigged the tails then tried it again.

BIG difference, livelier, no ballooning in the turns, faster overall.

I don't think you need to do any other mods, as fairing in the tail/fuselage junction probably will not have too much effect. As to the fuselage effectively sitting higher in the airflow, this I am convinced is desirable as in this case the air for the most part has a definite entry and exit point, where if its all parallel then it just eddys along.

Its never going to be a record breaker these days but I have had a 34 with it (modified) which I still my F3f PB and I have heard of a 30 second flat too, so its no slouch.

Bad habits are not too bad, but like many lower aspect ratio, broad wing designs it will flick in the turns if you overcook it - and it's pretty hard to recover.

Don't know if thats helpful.

Cheers,

Doc.
 

Konrad

Active member
Jan 23, 2018
755
44
San Francisco
#6
Actually that helps a bit.

All the airfoils (profiles) you designed, RCRCM builds within tollerance levels to your spec's. Whether they are using them correctly is another discution.

I think Michael Selig had a paper on the pointed down fuselage. I think he made an F3B design called Opus to demmonstrate this.

So I'm thinking that an RCRCM carbon Strega might have some value at a $600 price point, and suitable for my skill level. But some of the other design at 3 time the cost are looking real good!
 
Dec 13, 2017
329
20
Taiwan
#7
Actually that helps a bit.

All the airfoils (profiles) you designed, RCRCM builds within tollerance levels to your spec's. Whether they are using them correctly is another discution.

I think Michael Selig had a paper on the pointed down fuselage. I think he made an F3B design called Opus to demmonstrate this.

So I'm thinking that an RCRCM carbon Strega might have some value at a $600 price point, and suitable for my skill level. But some of the other design at 3 time the cost are looking real good!
No doubt there are some good models around!

Doc.
 

purview

New member
Nov 5, 2018
38
0
#8
Hello James, Konrad as well

Years ago I was in the situation to decide what I should fly next. The Strega was allready in the shopping cart, at a time where the knowledge about the "flying slow ability" you talked above of it was not present myself. Right before the BUY there was a misconception on the painting scheme so I end up with their "newest" plane named Typhoon 3000 Plus with a JH8 aerofoil.

At that time it was my second moulded plane. And if you guys are talking about:
- performance
- wrong incidence
- ballooning
- bitchy in flicking
- and loosing seconds
please give me an indication that a customer is beware of the pros and cons you are talking about? Are we all not flying the throws given by the guideline called manual and set the limits by "steep dive and full bull"

I can tell you what was the reason with my limited knowledge at that time to buy exactly this model:
- Carlos Pisarello flies and wants to get his ideas work
- JH airfoil (at that time didn't know about the split of thin and thick airfoil dependants)
- all moving elevator (to understand and experiment more with gliders)
- Price

What was not in mind, today I would take heed of: how it was build, with which materials, which spar technique, a special color arrange that I can use shadow/light effects better and if I am a good boy than I would also look on the environmentally-friendly concerns of the factory.

Back to your problem Konrad of "what to buy next". It helped me a lot to take some more time and learn how to use such moulded planes (storage, landing issues, ballast, repairs…cognititve response and thumb actions in gusty air). The advise I can give to you is a stupid one. Every plane must fly, the risk of damage is (dependent
on your driving licence ; -) @ first high. The crash energy exhaustion does frighten me a bit and I am more frighten to meet people on the slope I do not know or in worst case I didn't saw (n)

I will compare it with motorcycles if you accept it. If you want to have fun (we know the Speed Limits) you better keep in mind to A) have a bike that suits to your skills and B) to drive within your limits, otherwise you would meet "by" grim reaper… racing attitudes grow by time, good to be still able to learn -> spent your money, I want to see a building thread of your newest ship what else should we do ***recreation (the ships from european manufacture are world leading if results count)

Cheers
Chris
 
Last edited:
Dec 13, 2017
329
20
Taiwan
#9
Hello James, Konrad as well

Years ago I was in the situation to decide what I should fly next. The Strega was allready in the shopping cart, at a time where the knowledge about the "flying slow ability" you talked above of it was not present myself. Right before the BUY there was a misconception on the painting scheme so I end up with their "newest" plane named Typhoon 3000 Plus with a JH8 aerofoil.

At that time it was my second moulded plane. And if you guys are talking about:
- performance
- wrong incidence
- ballooning
- bitchy in flicking
- and loosing seconds
please give me an indication that a customer is beware of the pros and cons you are talking about? Are we all not flying the throws given by the guideline called manual and set the limits by "steep dive and full bull"

I can tell you what was the reason with my limited knowledge at that time to buy exactly this model:
- Carlos Pisarello flies and wants to gets his ideas work
- JH airfoil (at that time didn't know about the split of thin and thick airfoil dependants)
- all moving elevator (to understand and experiment more with gliders)
- Price

What was not in mind, today I would take heed of: how it was build, with which materials, which spar technique, a special color arrange that I can use shadow/light effects better and if I am a good boy than I would also look on the environmentally-friendly concerns of the factory.

Back to your problem Konrad of "what to buy next". It helped me a lot to take some more time and learn how to use such moulded planes (storage, landing issues, ballast, repairs…cognititve response and thumb actions in gusty air). The advise I can give to you is a stupid one. Every plane must fly, the risk of damage is (dependent
on your driving licence ; -) @ first high. The crash energy exhaustion does frighten me a bit and I am more frighten to meet people on the slope I do not know or in worst case I didn't saw (n)

I will compare it with motorcycles if you accept it. If you want to have fun (we know the Speed Limits) you better keep in mind to A) have a bike that suits to your skills and B) to drive within your limits, otherwise you would meet "by" grim reaper… racing attitudes grow by time, good to be still able to learn -> spent your money, I want to see a building thread of your newest ship what else should we do ***recreation (the ships from european manufacture are world leading if results count)

Cheers
Chris
Chris, Carlos Pisarello had nothing to do with this design unless it was him who recommended the incidence?.

I did hear that he was responsible for changes made to others of my designs though.

Doc.
 

purview

New member
Nov 5, 2018
38
0
#10
minefield… history... it is somewhere not the same?
Lucky you, you have a company now that keep a closer eye on things.
SoaringUSa want to get rid off and offer percentages to customers, what should Konrad do?

Better a terrible end than unending terror or having plenty of money in the pocket [all water]

Cheers Chris
 

Konrad

Active member
Jan 23, 2018
755
44
San Francisco
#11
Greetings Criss, I'm not the novice to slope flying that I appear to be. What I am is way out of date as to what is available in the way of molded models. Heck, when I last was shopping for molded gliders RCRCM wasn't even around.

While I enjoy high performance models (read FAI F3D, and heavy wing loaded speed ships). I'm well aware that my absences from the slope for 20 years means that I can't extract the full potential out of many of the aircraft on the market.

I rarely fly with the manufactures recommended set up. I have my own opinion, feel, as to what I like. But I do usually start with their recommended set up for the maiden, and adjust from there. It usually takes me 12 test flight or more before I have a ship (radio) set up anywhere near what I like. I'm not afraid to hack up a model to get what I want as far as handling. (Yes, I've been known to improve things to the point that they don't work!):eek:

What I'm trying to learn with this thread is not what is the greatest model out there. But is what SoaringUSA has on sale worth the discounted price. I'm happy to learn of the strength and weakness of other designs but I'm really thinking of what SoaringUSA is selling as I have a $100 gift certificate from them.

All the best,
Konrad
 
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purview

New member
Nov 5, 2018
38
0
#12
Hello Konrad,
yes u got me. I was talking more about the pilot's confidence. You are searching more for the last bit of percentage in a good value as well as in price.
Just to get the thread into a proper direction: You are not a novice in flying. You want to learn how to save money in your wallet that will be worth the new plane. It should suit to your cost/benefit problem? The new plane can be a "sporty" RCRCM or a "step up" 2000$ plus ship. Measured once (economical) and should be worth the money lost (in exchange of a new ship to spend hopefully a good time with).
Many regards,
Chris
 

Konrad

Active member
Jan 23, 2018
755
44
San Francisco
#13
Doc,
Your comment about swapping paint in an ISR contest pushed me to buy 2 Stregas. This meant that price was the over riding consideration.

I wasn't looking for an ISR ship. But now that I may have something......

Thanks for allowing me to bounce ideas off of you.

All the best,
Konrad
 
Dec 13, 2017
329
20
Taiwan
#14
Woo...armed for bear now, Konrad!

Strega should be a good gun platform to get started with, but don't forget they go better with no incidence.

I'm hoping to fly (Finally) next in year's ISR after solving a nagging colour vision problem I have had for far too long.

Should be mucho fun as usual! (I'm hoping the sun will put in an appearance this year)

Cheers,

Doc.
 

jvaliensi

New member
May 26, 2018
51
3
#16
If you are thinking to purchase from Soaring USA the Twister is a great choice and about a grand. Bob says it is the best quality, but I think some RCRCM models look better. They go fast - there is a video of a 34sec run at Pt Ferman.
But my Schwing Corsa was the nicest sailplane I ever had.
 

Konrad

Active member
Jan 23, 2018
755
44
San Francisco
#17
Thanks I did see the Twister. But the aspect ratio concerned me. The Twister has 14.2:1 verses the Strega's 14.88:1. 15:1 is about as low as I want to go for pylon racing (F3F & now maybe MOM). ( See Doc's warning)
Besides I like my ships like I like my women, those with bad reputations! The Strega has this. And I think with some rework a lot of this can be corrected.

I too would like to have a sine wave sparred ship. But for about $550 each shipped the Stregas' are hard to beat.

Besides this is what my ships look like at the end of a day racing!
https://forum.alofthobbies.com/inde...olded-models-60-glass-and-rohacell-racer.367/


All the best,
Konrad
 

Konrad

Active member
Jan 23, 2018
755
44
San Francisco
#18
Stregas-
I've learned that SUSA and RCRCM don't list ballast for these ships. Do they not come with ballast receptacles installed? If they do have receptacles installed what have you guys used for ballasting these ships. Also what are the FAI weight limits? Are they total mass or is it a wing loading calculation. While on the subject of FAI does the Strega meet the FAI nose radius. I know I should have looked into this before placing the order.

All the best,
Konrad
 
Dec 13, 2017
329
20
Taiwan
#19
Hi Konrad,
since I designed this model you have come to the right place.

  • No ballast is supplied - but there used to be a glass ballast tube in the accessories.
  • Tube used to be 20mm I.D. and 400mm long.
  • If its not there then Wayne has a much better choice in his carbon tube rack.
  • I use 20mm diameter x 35mm long brass slugs. I don't think I'd bother to go to the expense of Tungsten here.

With that tube you can ballast to the FAI limit.

From the FAI sporting code:

5.8.2. Characteristics of Radio Controlled Slope Gliders

Maximum surface area (St) ……………………….150 dm2
Maximum flying mass . ……………………………..5 kg
Loading on St ………………………………………..between 12 and 75 g/dm2

Minimum radius of fuselage nose 7,5 mm in all orientations (see F3B nose definition
for measuring technique)


Strega nose radius is 10mm - My mistake hahaha.

Cheers,

Doc J.