International Slope Race (ISR) 2019.

[Konrad]

Doc,
You and I both know how dangerous it is to joke on the internet, particularly when using a much loved aspect of the hobby as the butt of the joke.

When making a joke (trying to) on the internet I try to use emoticons. They take the place of voice inflection and other clues used to indicate a joke.

"Still, it beats DS"-Doc
I’m sorry I didn’t see anything in your post to indicate that your remarks were tongue in cheek.

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Doc,
You and I both know how dangerous it is to joke on the internet, particularly when using a much loved aspect of the hobby as the butt of the joke.

When making a joke (trying to) on the internet I try to use emoticons. They take the place of voice inflection and other clues used to indicate a joke.

"Still, it beats DS"-Doc
I’m sorry I didn’t see anything in your post to indicate that your remarks were tongue in cheek.

All the best,
Konrad

Tongue duly cheeked.

Doc.

 

[PaulG]

Guys,
For a pretty new pilot that can take off and land an electric fixed wing. What do you suggest for a first slope glider to take with me to Davenport? Also spare parts or should I plan on buying an extra plane?
Thanks,
Paul

 

[Konrad]

Paul the ISR is not the venue to learn how to slope soar. I’d like to ask what your experience is slope soaring? Can you read the slope for signs of lift and sink? Are you comfortable with the idea that the elevator controls speed not altitude? If not then racing is not a good idea.

Now if you know how to slope fly and are looking to try your hand at racing in novice class here is what I’d look at. Just about any 2 meter to 2.4 meter sport slope ship will do fine. I don’t recommend the bigger ones as they are expensive. I like molded sport ships. But the veneer ones from Blejzyk with the added ability to add ballast will be adequate for the novice class.
https://alofthobbies.com/aircraft/gliders/blejzyk.html

A quick look at what Aloft carries these should also work well for the novice class.
https://alofthobbies.com/mach-2-fiberglass.html

On the small side,
https://alofthobbies.com/mini-mach-sport-glider.html

There are some in the Aeroic line that would fit well, but supply issues might be a problem.
https://alofthobbies.com/aeroic-swing-corsa-108.html
https://alofthobbies.com/the-stormbird-by-aeroic.html

While this is not an FAI F3F race any number of older F3F ships would do you real well!
Think of the ISR as a Man on Man F3F race.

Now if you are new to slope flying I'd like to encourage you to come out and work the race. I've been flying slope for 35 years and learned a lot just working the race last year. The time put in up front will pay you dividends later on!

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Wayne]

What Konrad said all sounds good to me.

The novice class is a lot of fun, and you will learn a ton, but you really do want to have some solid slope experience first. Get out to a slope now and have some fun. You will be ready by the time the ISR rolls around.

 

[PaulG]

Thanks for the advise guys! I'll keep an eye on the forums for any opportunities to get out and learn!

 

[purview]

Hi,
Maybe to start a new topic of how to become a safe pilot on the slope for yourself, others and maybe your plane(s) and/or trees, ground equipment and so on? Experience matters, Wayne knows new folks… and I learned it also with misshapps
Ask good questions - it is not so hard and tells something - about your intentien
many regards
chris

pracitce first some landings without landing gears, it is also possible to fly with a grasshopper on the slope if the wind allows ; - )

 

[Konrad]

"Grasshopper"?
Sounds like a spiritual character from the 70's TV show "Kung Fu".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_(TV_series)

What or who is grasshopper?

When flying, I try to fly with the hawks and gulls. They are very good at showing us land based life forms where the lift is.

All the best,
Konrad

P.S.
Is this what you are flying? A Piper L-4 Grasshopper

 

[purview]

Hello,

yes J-3 ordinary and "L-4" (but not knowing why there the difference in specs). PaulG you can go meanwhile with your electric fixed wing for training schedules and maybe also off terrain (so not on runways) to practice landing skills without a landing gear and do some belly landings. The lower the speed the lower the impact and most of the time less damage.

A beginner sloper can be any sailplane (also with a motor - it is up to you to stay up or to land sooner or later) you are comfortable with, or am I wrong guys?

You must be familiar with: wind, weather, flying box (most of the useful energy is somewhere you have to find out first); or more model like: wingspan, materials (epp,wood,glass,hybrid), weight, shock resistance; or other factors like: price, self made building or ready to fly
(If asking for a specific plane then I have to comment that I do not know PaulG and his experience or age, and vice versa the adviser role of mine)

A grasshopper can jump twenty body lengths. What a sailplane can do on a slope is set by the task I named above: familiarity first to hand over "top guns"

Chris

 

[Wayne]

If we are talking about slope flying, yes, you can fly just about anything on a slope, but you will be well served to have something actually intended for slope flying. Only then will you get a real feel for the performance.

 

[purview]

hy wayne,
with performance u mean the interplay of the airframe and the slope-wind? Or just the intention of the sailplane like - flat field, thermal, medium to strong winds? (PSS is not mentioned yet)
cheers
chris

 

[Wayne]

You can fly a pizza box on a slope with the right balance, but it isn't going to be much fun. I see a lot of powered pilots try out slope soaring by converting a gas or electric airframe by removing the prop. This might fly, but it will be far from the performance of a real slope ship.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

As a designer, I have to agree completely with Wayne.

There are quite a few differences between flat field glider designs when compared to slope designs, and further still with the individual slope soarer design envelope targets:

e.g: Generally: DS Speed, Aerobatics, F3f, Trainer, All-rounders, (Sports, High performance Sports) and of course PSS. Years ago you could have added one more class: "Pylon" - which was the original ISR specification.

If designed for a specific task, all of them in some way or another compromise some aspects of the performance of the other types - so there are no REAL All-rounders, but you can make something that does most of the tasks pretty well.

For ISR Sportsman Class you really need an All-rounder which will fly fast, turn well and be very forgiving of its pilots possible errors. For the ISR "Master" Class you probably need to specialise even more to be competitive and so might go for an F3f type airframe.

As we have seen, even for the Sportsman class you still have to fly something that can at least have the potential to fly at a reasonable pace and turn when required.

Cheers,

Doc J.

 

[Konrad]

...
As we have seen, even for the Sportsman class you still have to fly something that can at least have the potential to fly at a reasonable pace and turn when required.

Cheers,

Doc J.

Chris sure did a good job getting that sub 1.5 meter "glider" down to the flag and back. But it sure looked like an ordeal!

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Chris sure did a good job getting that sub 1.5 meter "glider" down to the flag and back. But it sure looked like an ordeal!

All the best,
Konrad

He did indeed - but only after we subjected it to some very serious surgery - and then it only just made it!

Cheers,

Doc.

 

[purview]

a real slope-ship isnt an allrounder
which will be rarely flown by beginners to rookies
which at best, are not in the master class at ISR

we Need more Performance guys and lads

 

[Konrad]

No,
There are a lot of all around slope ships. There are beginner slope ships ( simple radio set up and durable). Then there is the huge intermediate class of all a round ships. Then there are competition ships (built to a set of rules and/or requirement).

Any beginner to slope flying needs a ship designed for slope flying.

The ISR or any pylon racing plane needs to deal with high wing loading and at the same time offer controlled high speed turns ( little or no "Flicking").

Now most aerobatic slope gliders need to be able to flick (snap) to produce those wild post stall maneuvers. These do not make good racing planes.

Now it is true that with enough lift just about anything can be flow on the slope, maybe even a bowling ball. But not everything makes a good slope ship, surely not that bowling ball or grasshopper.

All the best,
Konrad

 

[purview]

Greetings Konrad,
I think we have now more information collected for PaulG. The post from 19.Nov was more a plane compilation. As you said ISR is not the venue to learn soarslope and a predestine to F3F man on man on the spot. The task of the ISR sounds pretty annoying if the contrahent is right in front of the faster plane. I must watch an ISR anyday live.

Never saw a Pylon on the slope. You guys are crazy. If a pizza-box flies it should be slugged with a pizza...
Cheers Chris

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Chris - I am sorry my friend, but throughout your numerous replies on the thread, I cannot for the life of me understand what your points are.

To all:

Am I being stupid here or can someone elaborate? - I'm sorry to say, but to me these posts just seem like meaningless meanderings with no actual point or purpose. GIGO

What is/are the salient point(s) here?

• Are we talking about the ISR race?
• Are we talking about general slope soaring?
• Are we taking about ISR pylon racing Vs F3f races?
• Are we talking abut different types of slope soarer?
• Are we talking about slope soarers Vs flat field models?
• Are we talking about all models Vs All models?
• Are we talking about the wind, runways, electric - what are we talking about?

Sorry to be so thick but I simply do not get it.

Please can someone "translate" for me?
Thanks in advance.

Doc J.

 

[Konrad]

Doc, You aren't thick.

For my part I've been trying to show what is suitable or not for the ISR without maligning other disciplines.

All the best,
Konrad