Who flies hotliners?

[smirkracing2024]

Hi All,

Are any of you into hotliners? None of my flying buddies are, and I'd like to meet up with folks who are into this class of plane.

I define hotliners as 2m+ wingspan all-composite gliders that run massive over-square props (mine are around 18x23), 8-10s batteries, and usually only get 20-30 seconds of motor time max (but 4-5 min of total flying time easily, if not more). They usually pull 3-6kw, although some go even higher. In terms of flying style, you blip the throttle for 2-3 seconds, accelerate to 150mph+ almost instantly, and then glide until you need more speed.

This is not meant to be exclusionary - if you have something different and feel it is a hotliner, or if you fly differently, awesome! Doesn't matter. All that's important is that you love the speed.

I am just distinguishing hotliners from pylon racers (which I also love, and fly often) which usually get 2 full min of motor time, at or near 100% throttle the entire time, with a 1.5m wingspan, and tiny props, often 5x5 or so. They're usually around 5s and much lower total power, 1500 watts perhaps.

If you're into hotliners (or, separately, pylon racers) and want to fly down south, at Baylands, or have some other venue that's suitable, let me know. I'll be keen to meet and fly together. I am also a member at SacRats near Fremont / Union City and we can fly over there as well.

 

[Yotaman1985]

Hey! I have always wanted to get into hotliners as I fly turbines and really enjoy speed... lol

I have had a few pylon racer style planes but I have never had a suitable location to fly the anything larger/faster. I fly turbines at Crows Landing which is not suitable unfortunately as it is a large concrete runway that is very rough surrounded by farm fields with tall grass or churned up soil and not smooth.

Maybe Ill start saving towards one and we can meet up sometime. Im in San Ramon and have some good park flying locations but nothing large enough for over 140-150 mph.

 

[Wayne]

I'm sure Jarron will pipe up pretty soon. He always has a need for speed. He has his new hotliner to build out.

I usually cringe when people describe a glider as a hotliner, but I have seen your planes, and your description above is exactly what a hotliner is, everything less ia a sport plane. A true hotliner is actually pretty rare in the USA.

I know we have another customer down in San Rafael that has a hotliner or two. We will have to reach out to him.

 

[Tmcfarland]

And I have seen some refered to as “warm liners”. I guess that means a bit slower but still warm.

 

[smirkracing2024]

I'm sure Jarron will pipe up pretty soon. He always has a need for speed. He has his new hotliner to build out.

I usually cringe when people describe a glider as a hotliner, but I have seen your planes, and your description above is exactly what a hotliner is, everything less ia a sport plane. A true hotliner is actually pretty rare in the USA.

I know we have another customer down in San Rafael that has a hotliner or two. We will have to reach out to him.

Jarron and I seem to have similar tastes - the slowest of the slow (Multiplex Fun Cub) and the fastest of the fast

Actually my absolute slowest airplane is a Twisted Hobbys Piper SC. I used all my own electronics (a good bit lighter, and massively less expensive than the TH combo packs). I have not official measured the speed, but I'd estimate it can fly (actually fly on the wing, not just high alpha / harrier) at something like 4mph. Looks like majestic doing so, specially when you calmly pull in a nice clean loop, still quite the slow the whole time. The fun cub is (was) probably second slowest.

And I have seen some refered to as “warm liners”. I guess that means a bit slower but still warm.

Yes, if you can run the motor at something LESS than full throttle, you probably have a warmliner. Hotliners are so insanely overpowered, and designed to operate so close to the very edge of failure, that the ESC literally needs to be at full throttle in order to function properly. Anything less is actually more stress on the ESC and could push the electronics past the edge and into failure.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

In Europe, they fly E-Spada's as "Hotliners" with super-powerful motor/battery combos for high-G vertical takeoffs.

Never seen it, never done it, but it looks like fun.

Doc.

 

[Wayne]

Even the Spada on steroids while impressive is not what I'd classify as a "hotliner".

Imagine a plane that is around the size of your Forza, but about 1/4 of the weight and then stuff in an insane motor/prop combo that should only be powered up for a couple of seconds and instantly transports the plane into warp speeds, then you fly around and enjoy the speed. The planes are generally very clean aerodynamically and the speed lasts a good amount of time. With a good pilot, it is a darn good show.

This is why I don't love the term hotliner, it has been so watered down over the years. I just went to find a decent video and couldn't find any true hotliners. The German speed cup stuff is not what I consider a hotliner either. That is another form of a speed plane.

There is no tameness with a true Hotliner, it is always close to death. Heat, amps, Gs or pilots skills, one of these will kill the model at some point pretty soon. The planes live a rather tortured life. But that is true for any "speed" planes.

I don't have the skills and I don't have the budget.

The funny thing is you could power one of these airframes with an old brushed Speed 400 motor and the plane would be decently quick and fun. Now add 3,000 watts and start torturing batteries and you have insanity. I think that is a fair description?

There is a guy on RC Groups that has worked out a 1S 18650 power setup with a tiny little sub 250 gram glider that I would have to say is as close as you can get to a making a tiny hotliner. Funny thing is he uses just rudder and elevator for control.

 

[smirkracing2024]

Here's a video of one of my first hotliner outings. The video is quite typical of hotliner vids on YT in that it fails to do justice to the hotliner. It doesn't capture the feeling of what it is like to see one up close, but it is all I have:

To properly film one of these, you'd need a very experienced pilot, a very experienced cameraman, and they'd need to have a strong rapport and ability to communicate. It can be done... I hope to work on with the same guy who took the video above (he's very good, but unless you've seen and filmed hotliners many times before, which he had not, it is basically impossible to do well).

 

[Yotaman1985]

Thats so wild

 

[Wayne]

Was that plane pulling vertical under throttle? Or is that what you like to do? Didn't seem like it was maintaining speed very well. I know, maiden flight.

I have seen some better video, but doubt I could find it these days.

 

[smirkracing2024]

Was that plane pulling vertical under throttle? Or is that what you like to do? Didn't seem like it was maintaining speed very well. I know, maiden flight.

I have seen some better video, but doubt I could find it these days.

The flying was poor, the video was poor, the pilot.... has gotten better

It will take some months but I'll coordinate with my buddy to get proper video of good flying.

I was yanking it up immediately on every throttle pull because "up" felt like the only safe direction in which to fly. The plane would use up the available space in the field so quickly when flying level, in any direction, and I was not yet comfortable with tight, hard, high-speed turns. Things have improved now

Off-camera (because of how fast it was moving the cameraman couldn't keep up) I was just pulling loop after loop to intentionally burn off some of the speed. Loops felt safe because they were very easy to execute and I knew the plane would stay in some prescribed area and not get away from me.

 

[Jarron]

eeeheheheee

Neu 1512 2.5D, going to do 8S!

 

[smirkracing2024]

Beautiful and clean!

 

[smirkracing2024]

To me America is about power, capital P, so I got out my most powerful planes to celebrate our 250th.

First up was the Avionic B19, 2 meter wingspan, 18x23 prop, AUW about 1650 grams.

Pulls about 172amps on 10s and generates 5600watts (for 2-3 seconds at a time).

Total motor time is about 20 seconds, total flight time is about 4-5min. The motor is meant to operate on a switch, apart from a brief ramp during launch. Other than launch, the motor is either at zero or 100%. Flying is equal parts exhilaration and terror.

Also got to fly a pylon racer, the Avionic E23, much smaller at 1.5m wingspan, 5.5x6.5 prop, AUW about 1000 grams. Prop looks like it belongs on a boat, not an airplane, it is so tiny.

Pulls 80amps on 5s to generate 1600 watts but you can generate that power for the entire 90 second run, throttle pinned the entire time (if you can manage that, which I can't). Flight time is about 2 min (there's some gliding required not to cool the motor, but to cool your brain, calm your tremors, and unclench your rear end).

I am unable to keep the throttle pinned for the entire flight because the plane is just too fast. Today I was able to keep the throttle pinned for about 1 full lap, before being forced to let go, which was the longest I've ever managed. Previously, I could only hit full throttle for half a lap (probably less), so I'm improving. Staying on full throttle through a 180 degree turn is very hard for the pilot (at least, if I'm the pilot), but the plane loves it. It opens up only above 100mph or so. Up until today, I'd probably only seen ~60% of its top speed, today I saw maybe ~75%. It's like a car that only has 6th gear... Slow to accelerate, but once you're going fast, it keeps going faster and faster. But you have to be willing to stay on the gas and not let go. We have a large field at Baylands but it feels very small when flying this plane.

 

[Yotaman1985]

So cool!

 

[Wayne]

I have only seen a few people fly a true pylon racer to their potential in real life. A large part of this for me is the very low number of pilots I have seen with this sort of plane. They all seemed to be addicted to that sort of flight, and they all needed to mentally build up to it, and then let down from it. One pilot always had to have a smoke after flying his. LOL He didn't smoke most of the time. The hard banking turns under power were impressive.

We always landed for the show.

You're right, that is a good way to celebrate the 4th.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Aeroic E-Spada - no motor on, no ballast, flown by CRG Sebastian Franken at FISS Austria. Boy thse guys have some great flying places!

 

[smirkracing2024]

Aeroic E-Spada - no motor on, no ballast, flown by CRG Sebastian Franken at FISS Austria. Boy thse guys have some great flying places!

Those videos from Composite RC, and several other European manufacturers, break my brain. Gorgeous vistas, great music, awesome planes... someday I'll spend time out that way.

 

[austin]

I FLY HOTLINERS...........circa 1996 when 1kw did the trick. The most power I've flown is my Top Model Twister with 2kw but the airframe/airfoil slowed it way down, anyone want a Twister btw?

In your video you're at 5.6kw!!! I can't even imagine. What's your set up? When's the next video?

 

[Yotaman1985]

Well, I just purchased this one from Jarron so super stoked to join the pylon racer/hotliner club

HJK Speedwings Pilf
Hobbywing FlyFun v5 80A ESC
TP Power 3620 7Y (2250kv)
Super-S 6x6 prop

Ill start on 4s and maybe move to 5s once I get a feel for it.