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Welcome to our Ethos discussion area. Please read.
- Thread starter Wayne
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Konrad
Very Strong User
I agree. I've even seen guys push forward for up elevator. I Just like to learn why someone would deviate from the established norms. (There might be some hidden functionality I missed) I'm not placing a value judgement on the action. Like I said I know that some Europeans set up their helicopters this way, he mentions throttle hold. Why wasn't the flexibility set up earlier in Ethos? Does Ethos handle the cross trim set up on the throttle and then with this "reverse" throttle? This took a while to correct in OpenTX.
On a more sinister concern, Ethos has been out for a few weeks and already up to 1.0.10. What was the release version of Ethos? When is Ethos expected to be out of public beta testing.
On a more sinister concern, Ethos has been out for a few weeks and already up to 1.0.10. What was the release version of Ethos? When is Ethos expected to be out of public beta testing.
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Well, Ethos has been out for several months now, and .10 is the next release. Not all numbers have been public release levels. Some were skipped during beta release of that variant.
But in general, yes, we are seeing a lot of attention given to Ethos and they are not only altering things a bit as needed, but are e very actively adding new features. If you visit github you will see a lot of things listed, but the majority of them are feature requests from the public, not bugs.
I understand that many of us are used to seeing very few (if any) updates from a manufacturer. For example I had an HP printer that never did fully work, they never fixed the darn software, they just replaced the model and dropped support. Some companies will release one or maybe 2 revisions in the lifespan of a product.
We have all seen very popular brands in this hobby release big complex radios that either lack functionality, or require work arounds to get a function to work. Think they are all guilty of this. Some had big bugs, yet you may wait a year or more for a fix.
I guess my point is that I am happy to see a lot of development in Ethos, but agree, I would prefer they launched with a more polished version.
There are some things I would like to see added that I think will make Ethos even more polished and "EZ'r" to use..
But in general, yes, we are seeing a lot of attention given to Ethos and they are not only altering things a bit as needed, but are e very actively adding new features. If you visit github you will see a lot of things listed, but the majority of them are feature requests from the public, not bugs.
I understand that many of us are used to seeing very few (if any) updates from a manufacturer. For example I had an HP printer that never did fully work, they never fixed the darn software, they just replaced the model and dropped support. Some companies will release one or maybe 2 revisions in the lifespan of a product.
We have all seen very popular brands in this hobby release big complex radios that either lack functionality, or require work arounds to get a function to work. Think they are all guilty of this. Some had big bugs, yet you may wait a year or more for a fix.
I guess my point is that I am happy to see a lot of development in Ethos, but agree, I would prefer they launched with a more polished version.
There are some things I would like to see added that I think will make Ethos even more polished and "EZ'r" to use..
Konrad
Very Strong User
WOW, time flies, months! I recall that its been a few months since the release to (genuine beta tester). I thought it has only been available to the the general public for a few weeks.
10 releases in a short time looks like they didn't understand the market desire (needed features) or that there are bugs (trainer hand off issues). Either way, I as a customer would have had to spend a lot of time dealing with the lack of features and or trouble shooting the bugs. I hope that at the time the system was released to the public the revision number was around version 1.0.6 or so. The first 6 releases being internal as a result of a robust beta test program.
I mention this as I just came back from flying as a guest in Denver (most guys not knowing who I was). I was wearing my typical FrSky/Aloft swag and was inundated by three guys (one was also a visiter from Atlanta) telling me how poor their experience was with the X20. They also had some less than flattering words for FrSky. (You should have seen the face on one of guys when he realized that 4 of the six flying pilots where all using FrSky radios or RF decks. I had 18 aircraft out there, and these weren't typical "sport fliers". My partner in crime had a few 180 mph slimmer racers out there.) What I'm getting at is that FrSky is loosing the benefit of the doubt many of us gave FrSky in hopes that this new software (OS) would have been much more mature by the time it was released for sale with the X20.
I'm heavily committed to FrSky and want them to survive, actually succeed in the market place with Ethos. But a rapid fire set of FW updates is almost as bad as no software updates.
P.S.
I see that the release version of Ethose is 1.0.7. But 3 updates since 6-11-2021 doesn't look good. So the radio has only been out for a week or so! This is odd in that I was at the flying field on 6-6-2021
10 releases in a short time looks like they didn't understand the market desire (needed features) or that there are bugs (trainer hand off issues). Either way, I as a customer would have had to spend a lot of time dealing with the lack of features and or trouble shooting the bugs. I hope that at the time the system was released to the public the revision number was around version 1.0.6 or so. The first 6 releases being internal as a result of a robust beta test program.
I mention this as I just came back from flying as a guest in Denver (most guys not knowing who I was). I was wearing my typical FrSky/Aloft swag and was inundated by three guys (one was also a visiter from Atlanta) telling me how poor their experience was with the X20. They also had some less than flattering words for FrSky. (You should have seen the face on one of guys when he realized that 4 of the six flying pilots where all using FrSky radios or RF decks. I had 18 aircraft out there, and these weren't typical "sport fliers". My partner in crime had a few 180 mph slimmer racers out there.) What I'm getting at is that FrSky is loosing the benefit of the doubt many of us gave FrSky in hopes that this new software (OS) would have been much more mature by the time it was released for sale with the X20.
I'm heavily committed to FrSky and want them to survive, actually succeed in the market place with Ethos. But a rapid fire set of FW updates is almost as bad as no software updates.
P.S.
I see that the release version of Ethose is 1.0.7. But 3 updates since 6-11-2021 doesn't look good. So the radio has only been out for a week or so! This is odd in that I was at the flying field on 6-6-2021
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2MUCH2DO
Strong User
I have quite the opposite opinion, they are addressing issues rapidly, and releasing those fixes. I would seriously be thinking about dumping the radio without the rapid updates. Ethos is SO simple to update, and to track what you have. Rapid fire updates, and now properly labeled release candidates and releases, that's a sign of it getting to where we want it.
Its much better than a name brand radio, where there is one update in 6 years, and I still can't figure out how to actually do it, or what it changed.
Its much better than a name brand radio, where there is one update in 6 years, and I still can't figure out how to actually do it, or what it changed.
Well this is the issue, do you give your user base what the manufacturer thinks they need or do you work with the user base and respond to their requests. The X20 is early days and probably not suitable for someone that wants a finished product today. As long as the update process is easy the pain is quite low.
Konrad
Very Strong User
And that's the key.
One would have thought that the FrSky RF updates was easy enough. But we still see many folks confused by the ACCST v1 and v2 issue. Seeing a rapid fire succession of FW/Software, leads one to think that the program wasn't well thought out prior to release. With the history of FrSky one would have expected (hoped) that they had learned by following the requests for features submitted to OpenTX when writing the core code. It was also hoped that they would have followed the advice of their own dealers.
What is out there in the market place that drove such a rush as to release the X20 & Ethos prematurely? What little I have seen of the X20, I can tell you there is no competition from Jumper and RadioMaster.
Now bug fixes is another issue. Again one would have hoped that in beta test those that effected the then offered features would have been vetted. Bugs introduced as a function of added features happen, but are an indication that there are holes in their own documentation and validation process.
All I'm saying is that there is a feeling growing out there that Ethos isn't ready for the market place. Now those of us that have been in the FrSky sphere for years, know to wait 6 to 12 month for stable software. Like many dealers have said; FrSky should have waited a bit longer for the product to mature. It has a rushed feel to it. Not something one wants when one is trying to rebuild ones reputation.
I have an N of 3 that have voiced their concern about the X20. Now I haven't seen these guys with their X20. But they seemed informed in my casual conversation with them.
All the best,
Konrad
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3 people not using the X20 is not exactly a growing feeling. FRsky has been pretty open that this is a developing product. So if you are not ready don't purchase one yet.
2MUCH2DO
Strong User
I can tell you the X20 is 100% usable right now today. Ive been flying multiple models with 0 critical issues. It has some genuine bugs that are being worked, most having to do with telemetry. I've been frustrated with these myself, but they are getting adressed. In a way they are slightly ironic due to being related to FrSkys massive telemetry ecosystem, i dont know the history but ill guess it took OpenTX a few releases to get that all working also.
The rest of the current 140+ issues are feature requests. Most of which can already be accomplished with a work around. Heck, some are even from me. I dont envy whoever is going to have to make the descision that some of those are not appropriate to be included, they will be blasted by the vocal minority.
Ethos updates are quite a bit easier than open TX. No need to configure a companion, just grab your file, drag and drop. Ill admit, we will see if the bootloader is also as easy, openTX really shines on that. Updating both access and accst firmwares has been the same as openTX, I haven't had any issues.
The rest of the current 140+ issues are feature requests. Most of which can already be accomplished with a work around. Heck, some are even from me. I dont envy whoever is going to have to make the descision that some of those are not appropriate to be included, they will be blasted by the vocal minority.
Ethos updates are quite a bit easier than open TX. No need to configure a companion, just grab your file, drag and drop. Ill admit, we will see if the bootloader is also as easy, openTX really shines on that. Updating both access and accst firmwares has been the same as openTX, I haven't had any issues.
Konrad
Very Strong User
That is why I mentioned an N of 3. Not statistically significant. I also say as an experienced FrSky customer that "I" wouldn't be looking to purchase one until it becomes stable, this will take about a year. (If history is a guide).
Maybe I wasn't clear, the 3 guys say they are using the X20. (Now I didn't see an X20 on the field of battle) Now what is telling, is that walking on to a flying field that I rarely fly at, these 3 guy felt the need to share with me (an apparent FrSky fan boy, as I had 3 FrSky txs cases with me and was wearing FrSky swag) their frustration with FrSky and the X20. I don't want this X20 program to become another Horus X12. A lot of hype and excitement early on only to have the market place say it was a dud!
All the best,
Konrad
Frsky has been open about the product still being in development after this date June 2021? I'm sorry I don't see any mention of this on their sales page! All I've read is that the dealer, one of the initial drivers of Ethos, Aloft Hobbies say that the product needed polish a lot more polish before release. I'm sure these 3 guys wished they had known that the X20 was still a concept radio.
Maybe I wasn't clear, the 3 guys say they are using the X20. (Now I didn't see an X20 on the field of battle) Now what is telling, is that walking on to a flying field that I rarely fly at, these 3 guy felt the need to share with me (an apparent FrSky fan boy, as I had 3 FrSky txs cases with me and was wearing FrSky swag) their frustration with FrSky and the X20. I don't want this X20 program to become another Horus X12. A lot of hype and excitement early on only to have the market place say it was a dud!
All the best,
Konrad
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Konrad
Very Strong User
Well said.
Yes, OpenTX grew as the tech and customer experience and requests grew. I'd have expected that this market research pioneered by OpenTX would have been looked at by FrSky.
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Konrad
Very Strong User
This is odd.
I see that the release version of Ethos is 1.0.7. But 3 updates since 6-11-2021 doesn't look good. So the radio has only been out for a week or so! This is odd in that I was at the flying field on 6-6-2021 and the 3 guys claimed to actually be using the X20. I must be reading the date wrong, on the FrSky site these are in the European format?
I see that the release version of Ethos is 1.0.7. But 3 updates since 6-11-2021 doesn't look good. So the radio has only been out for a week or so! This is odd in that I was at the flying field on 6-6-2021 and the 3 guys claimed to actually be using the X20. I must be reading the date wrong, on the FrSky site these are in the European format?
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2MUCH2DO
Strong User
OK, so that Ethos website is crap. No denying that, for firmware updates you should look at the github link, which is also on the website, but the discrepancy is inexcusable.
Releases · FrSkyRC/ETHOS-Feedback-Community
Feedback & suggestions are welcomed here for ETHOS by FrSky - FrSkyRC/ETHOS-Feedback-Community
github.com
Konrad
Very Strong User
Welcome to the FrSky.
What in OpenTX drove you the think that Ethos had something better to offer. I fly sailplanes and jets and have found OpenTX so liberating. I have held the X20 and seen the OS Ethos in 20 minute stints. I can honestly say I haven't given Ethos much of a workout. But what I've seen doesn't grab me as being a paradigm shift in programing like the Multiplex Profi 4000mc and OpenTX have proven to be. This may or may not be a good thing or a strong selling point. I now know of 3 guys that aren't impressed.
2MUCH2DO
Strong User
I would not say that Ethos is a paradigm shift, its an attempt at a refinement on the paradigm shift created by OpenTX. Ethos is not what drove me, the X20 is. When i say the OpenTX experience, I mean it was positive, but I wanted a good, long-term radio. I'm just happy to say that Ethos is working and I believe is as functional as OpenTX. There was not a piece of hardware on OpenTX that I felt was equivalent. If the X20 was on Open TX I would not bother with a new OS, and I think that FrSky understands that. I have looked at the Horus radios for a while and was strongly considering an X10s Express when the X20 was announced, and looked like more what I wanted.
The toy-like feel of all all openTX radios but the Xlite is a hard thing to overcome. Even the Taranis just doesn't feel great to me, and I really didn't want an Xlite, lol.
The toy-like feel of all all openTX radios but the Xlite is a hard thing to overcome. Even the Taranis just doesn't feel great to me, and I really didn't want an Xlite, lol.
2MUCH2DO
Strong User
I feel like I can expound a little on the refinement comment. I think Ethos is a better, easier to use interface than OpenTX. I would have a real hard time programming an F3F glider from scratch in OpenTX without the companion. But with Ethos I did it in about 15 minutes, without any back and forth between the glider and the computer. And that's burning several minutes thinking about how to overcome two of the mixer limitations that I have submitted as feature requests.
There is still loads I am learning about, and it turns out that a lot of it has analogues in OpenTX that I didn't know about. For instance, displaying the min and Max RSSI or altitude from a flight. I didn't know that was there until I saw it in Ethos, which is another argument for it having a better UI.
I know that a lot of this is opinion, and that I would not have been as fast in Ethos if I had not already learned the basics of OpenTX, but there is something to be said for the experiences to date. I'm a complainer, I have no problem commenting all over the github issues list, but at the end of the day, I'm using it, and transferring the F3J glider and as mentioned have been flying the F3F glider with it quite a bit actually.
My stuff is old and beat, but still precious to me, so take it for what it is.
There is still loads I am learning about, and it turns out that a lot of it has analogues in OpenTX that I didn't know about. For instance, displaying the min and Max RSSI or altitude from a flight. I didn't know that was there until I saw it in Ethos, which is another argument for it having a better UI.
I know that a lot of this is opinion, and that I would not have been as fast in Ethos if I had not already learned the basics of OpenTX, but there is something to be said for the experiences to date. I'm a complainer, I have no problem commenting all over the github issues list, but at the end of the day, I'm using it, and transferring the F3J glider and as mentioned have been flying the F3F glider with it quite a bit actually.
My stuff is old and beat, but still precious to me, so take it for what it is.
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I think one of the larger issues FrSky faces is the negative comments they seem to attract online these days. For years they were on the other side of things and people generally loved them and their products. The clones showed up and started their anti FrSky campaign online and many people now see FrSky as some big company that can do no right. Reality is FrSky has not changed. They use the same exact approach they always have.
FrSky does not do things perfect, and honestly never have. But they are VERY good and fixing things and listening to their customers.
I doubt any hobby manufacturers can pull off a high level radio like the X20 project off without a hitch regardless of price. This really is the biggest project from FrSky since the first X9D as all of the other radios the have produced were adaptations of the X9D, the X20 is not. The X20 has all new firmware, new architecture, new RF and all new software. The only thing they sort of borrowed from one of their existing radios is the case design being inspired by the X7, but even that is a stretch.
If you go onto RC Groups radio section and read there you will see all kinds of ugly comments there. Sadly this is where a lot of folks go to get their FrSky info, and you can't be exposed to that level of negativity without some of it being absorbed. The FrSky bashing is very strong there, yet people will be very happy with another brand that has major flaws. Go figure.
I’m really like the FrSky line and what it offers me. Yes, I wish it was easier to use and yes I wish they didn't have so many bloody updates, especially for the RF side of things. I wish backwards compatibility was much better.
FrSky does not do things perfect, and honestly never have. But they are VERY good and fixing things and listening to their customers.
I doubt any hobby manufacturers can pull off a high level radio like the X20 project off without a hitch regardless of price. This really is the biggest project from FrSky since the first X9D as all of the other radios the have produced were adaptations of the X9D, the X20 is not. The X20 has all new firmware, new architecture, new RF and all new software. The only thing they sort of borrowed from one of their existing radios is the case design being inspired by the X7, but even that is a stretch.
If you go onto RC Groups radio section and read there you will see all kinds of ugly comments there. Sadly this is where a lot of folks go to get their FrSky info, and you can't be exposed to that level of negativity without some of it being absorbed. The FrSky bashing is very strong there, yet people will be very happy with another brand that has major flaws. Go figure.
I’m really like the FrSky line and what it offers me. Yes, I wish it was easier to use and yes I wish they didn't have so many bloody updates, especially for the RF side of things. I wish backwards compatibility was much better.
I switched from an X10S running OTX, which I converted to Ethos, to the X20S. I love it, especially the location of the screen which can actually be viewed when using a neck strap without contortions. I don't fly any complicated gliders. The extent of my programming is mainly telemetry, flap differential, flaperons, spoilers, etc. For me the few ETHOS missing features do not inhibit anything I do, and ETHOS is improving all the time. For me it seems a little more intuitive than OTX. The X20S feels good in my large hands and has performed well on all the flights I have made since receiving it.
I frequent the radio section of RC Groups and have found valuable information there. Just like any forum with a large membership there are outright jerks, people pushing an agenda, and those just looking for or giving help. Just take everything you read with a grain of salt. Don't trust "truths" that only appear on one forum by vociferous members.
I frequent the radio section of RC Groups and have found valuable information there. Just like any forum with a large membership there are outright jerks, people pushing an agenda, and those just looking for or giving help. Just take everything you read with a grain of salt. Don't trust "truths" that only appear on one forum by vociferous members.
