Urgent firmware update to all X receivers and RF modules (ACCST D16) just released

[Konrad]

This is to demonstrate that I do put my money (time) where my mouth is. Here I’ve spent the last two days of my free time installing a Spektrum system into my latest model.
Not that anybody should care, other than FrSky. But this is to show that even somebody (me) who hates menu driven programing will forsake FrSky, if the confidence in the management of the firm is lost!

FrSky needs to learn that what is best for FrSky may not be the best for the customer base. And if the customer base isn’t happy that is even worse for FrSky. So FrSky please take good long look at what you are doing and why. Please separate these two issues, un-commanded servo motion and a "strengthened correction and verification capability”.

Wayne, Please note that this is a Taft Scorpion a foam ARF not one of my more emotionally invested projects. But I think it is clear for now where I’m headed when if comes to FrSky. By the way this issue has gotten me to find ways to streamline some of my menu driven programing. So while I’m pissed at FrSky they have helped me with my programing of Spektrum.

 

[HENNY]

Gosh Konrad you sound a bit cranky. However I do agree that the FRsky management are totally disconnected from their client needs, wants and expectations. Wayne must be in a very difficult place.

 

[Konrad]

Cranky?
From a customer perspective I am disappointed, frustrated and annoyed at how poor FrSky has been managing their software/ firmware roll outs. Yes, I'm trying to convey this. I just spent 2 day taking a step backwards. (BTW; this was still keeping with my normal use of Spektrum. I use them for my low emotional foam models. Usually UMX, but I do have a few larger beer coolers on the model list).

Not sure that Wayne is in a difficult place with FrSky. I think he can send them back customer returns as warranty issues. As to market share, unfortunately there is nothing that comes close to the OpenTX/FrSky combination. So it us the customer that is in a difficult place. This was made all the more obvious to me in my last attempt to program with a menu driven OS (Spektrum). I was able to get most of what I wanted into that jet. I still don't have the on the fly elevator comp.

Again thanks to you and getsuyoubi for all your help today.

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Scott Page]

Konrad -- I'm not sure if I'm cranky -- but I feel how I imagine I'd feel if I learned my betrothed was had been cheating on me from the beginning. I'm dumbfounded, shocked, and angry. I've lost all trust in the product I've been an avid promoter of for years. And that doesn't even get to the point of doing all of the firmware updates.

BIG thanks to getsuyoubi for locating that information. I'm essentially grounded at this point.

 

[Konrad]

Very well put! I'm at much the same point I was when I learned the true limitation of Spektrum DSM2. I've always known that 2.4 gHz, as the chips are set up isn't 100% solid there is always code to deal with packet even frame losses. But to learn that FrSky has a 900 mil sec. delay (lock out) is set back 15 years to the kind of delay we had with Spektrum and the brown out issue.

FrSky has lost my trust. I'm thinking Frsky is doing right with the update, but we never should have found ourselves in this situation. And that it took a dedicated set of "amateurs" to solve (find) these issues. Really shows me that FrSky doesn't have a very strong engineering team. Surely not a strong team or process when it comes to validating the code or the product.

But what I've really liked about my X9D+ was OpenTX. I thought it was the replacement I've needed since Multiplex's Profi 4000. I wonder what it would take for other OEMs to open up their code to allow OpenTX to run on their TX's.

For now I'm staying in the marriage for the sake of the children, OpenTX! But my eye is now wondering for a new gal to bare my soul, share my life. Jeti?

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Raso12]

Hello Konrad
I can only confirm what you pushed. I also love opentx. But Frsky disappointed me very much and I am now too jeti. Unfortunately also a step back in programming.
I don't trust Frsky anymore.

 

[Konrad]

I'm sitting here trying to reassess what I think FrSky is. Is it a manufacture, is it an engineering firm, is it a software developer, is it a sales outlet? Right now I'm not sure what FrSky is or what I should be expecting from them. Really my faith in them is shattered!

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Dunback]

...I remember when Spectrum developed their 2.4ghz system that used 2 channels at a time and was so much more reliable than frequency hopping and never, ever caused a crash...until..... Spectrum developed the new innovative frequency hoping system that was so much better. Then for a while there was the Futaba receiver that didn't have a heat problem as long as you kept it cool...and you paid more so that was fine.
You guys are right. FRsky's approach of innovation and easy updating (which too many people like me are chasing) with reasonable pricing is unacceptable. Me, I'm an idiot. I ended up with FRsky because of the others and I liked what they were selling and I still do. Good luck with your alternatives there....To help you along I'd be happy to take your Frsky gear off your hands since I'm sure it disgusts you just to look at it. I'll pay for shipping.

 

[Konrad]

Be careful of what you ask for, you just might get it. If you can show me a firm whose engineering process is more robust than Frsky’s and whose products run OpenTX we just might have a deal! I hate to see stuff end up in the land fill prematurely.

I need to be clear, my issue is with the firm FrSky. It is FrSky the corporation that I have lost all confidence with. I’m sure FrSky's products after they have been well vetted by the dedicated amateur customer base will end up being more than robust enough for our toy aircraft.

Not sure you understand the issue, that the RF environment has not been static.

I’ve been with 2.4 gHz since the very beginning. I saw the benefit to digitally processing the data way back in the 80’s with PCM on the 72 mHz band. I thought early on that this can only get better with data packets like that then in use with telecommunication.

I’ve been with Spektrum way back with DSM and many of the toys that came out on 2.4 gHz. I’ve suffered at the range issues with the early protocols and moisture, I’ve suffered the brown out reboot issue I also suffered the DSM2 floor saturation issues. I have to give Horizon Hobbies credit in that they stood by their Spektrum product with no question asked on warranties. I've crashed a lot of Spektrum equiped models in the early days of 2.4 gHz (pre DSMX). This was to be expected with early develpment work. Even with the early failures I had more robust data link with my aircraft than I had on 72 mHz

I stayed away from Futaba as they were closely associated with Grate Pains. For a plethora of issues I avoided great planes distributed products. This included Futaba even though Futaba was my first none hand me down radio. I loved the service from Futaba America before they were associated with great planes (pre FM days).

It is my understanding that FrSky’s RF protocols grew out of (were developed from) Futaba’s 2.4 gHz protocols. So I really have no technical issues with Futaba.

Somewhere along the way I acquired a lot XPS hardware. Again never had an issue with Jim’s hardware.

Now I’m sure that with this fiasco the secondary market for FrSky has fallen.

So who has a better engineering process and still allows one to program in OpenTX?

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Scott Page]

When the fit hits the shan with this situation is later -- when the majority of FrSky owners that have no idea about this problem purchase a new receiver (with the new firmware and it won't bind. Hopefully before this becomes an everyday occurrence there will be a youtube video on retrograding their new receiver so it will bind. FrSky has a mammoth problem here and they need to be the ones to IMMEDIATELY get some easy to follow educational materials - -youtube or whatever -- available. IMO this will be a make it or break it point for FrSky. If they expect the Internet and youtube to solve this problem for them they may well fall from grace - permanently.

What I've decided - at this point - is that I'll upgrade my transmitter - and upgrade models as I decide to fly them. I'll make a label that identifies them as being upgraded. I simply have too much equipment to do this all at once. Still pisssssssssed. Still disappointed. But wonder if the FAA will make this all superfluous anyway.

 

[HENNY]

I upgrade both my Horus X10S and X9D+ to the new v2.0.1 IXJT and XJT as well as a RX6R and today I find the Discover Telemetry can't find the find the A2 sensor. RSSI and RxTx works so yet another firmware fault. When will it end?

 

[JiminWA]

When the fit hits the shan with this situation is later -- when the majority of FrSky owners that have no idea about this problem purchase a new receiver (with the new firmware and it won't bind. Hopefully before this becomes an everyday occurrence there will be a youtube video on retrograding their new receiver so it will bind. FrSky has a mammoth problem here and they need to be the ones to IMMEDIATELY get some easy to follow educational materials - -youtube or whatever -- available. IMO this will be a make it or break it point for FrSky. If they expect the Internet and youtube to solve this problem for them they may well fall from grace - permanently.

What I've decided - at this point - is that I'll upgrade my transmitter - and upgrade models as I decide to fly them. I'll make a label that identifies them as being upgraded. I simply have too much equipment to do this all at once. Still pisssssssssed. Still disappointed. But wonder if the FAA will make this all superfluous anyway.

“Easy to follow educational materials “ That will be a challenge for them. One of the things I have noticed from all of the Made in China RC products is very poorly translated tech pubs. Worse than a Russian Helicopter project I was involved in some years ago. If that were possible. Then again this could be just psych warfare.?

 

[Konrad]

The FAA really is the elephant in the room.

What I have suspected and is now becoming very evident is that FrSky doesn’t have a validation process.

It has been a running joke that if you want something new to work don’t get FrSky! FrSky is much like a fine wine, it takes a while for it to mature.

I had put this down to poor documentation and service*. But now I see it a systemic issue at the heart of FrSky’s engineering.

I miss Kraft radio.

* Aloft, and guys like Scott Page, Painless 360 and others outside FrSky have tried to pickup the slack!

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Hank]

I have been watching this storm from the sideline and wondering what to say or do. But first, I have some questions:
1. Does this impact my Hitec module and Hitec-compatible Frsky receivers?
2. Does this impact my Frsky V8 receivers?
3. Does this impact my Frsky X-series and S-series that I purchased last year and before? (XR8R-Pro, XM+, S6R, S8R)
If sounds to me that the servo deflection issue started in the more recent X-series receivers? But where is the cutoff between new-bad and old-good?
I know you guys are going to give me a lecture about telemetry and how much I need it. But seriously, I only care about a solid RF link. If that means sacrificing telemetry and staying with the old V8 series, so be it.

Do you guys really want to go to Jeti? Have you looked at their prices? Their product better be perfect for that price!

 

[Konrad]

Yes, you are impacted if you are using a XJT module. The V8 has been history and is realistically dead (Much like the use of DSM2).
I too rarely use telemetry. I find it much more of a distraction that anything else. It also looks too much like my work. Other than my flight tests I don't want to know much of what telemetry can tell me. If I'm flying that close to my limits (range and battery) I need change my flight profile.

There is no good or bad production date.

This is a misconception about 2.4gHz RF. It isn't so much about the RF link, carrier frequency issues. But rather how data packets are extracted and processes. This is a digital issue not RF analog issue. Hence the need for firmware.

Price???
Do you recall what we paid for with the great Kraft radios and that was with 1970's dollars. I still have a price tag on my Futaba FP-T7UAF Super Seven PCM. It is showing $574.98 for the TX 2 micro servos and I RX PCM and this was in 1990's dollars. So to my eye all modern radio are dirt cheap! Especially Jeti as it looks like it is a better firm.

To be clear all products have limitations.

But no I don't want to go to Jeti. Because as of now it won't support object programing like OpenTX. Should Jeti open up their code to allow OpenTX and the FAA has figured out how to truly incorporate "drones" then I'll jump!

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Hank]

Yes, you are impacted if you are using a XJT module. The V8 has been history and is realistically dead (Much like the use of DSM2).
I too rarely use telemetry. I find it much more of a distraction that anything else. It also looks too much like my work. Other than my flight tests I don't want to know much of what telemetry can tell me. If I'm flying that close to my limits (range and battery) I need change my flight profile.

There is no good or bad production date.

This is a misconception about 2.4gHz RF. It isn't so much about the RF link, carrier frequency issues. But rather how data packets are extracted and processes. This is a digital issue not RF analog issue. Hence the need for firmware.

Price???
Do you recall what we paid for with the great Kraft radios and that was with 1970's dollars. I still have a price tag on my Futaba FP-T7UAF Super Seven PCM. It is showing $574.98 for the TX 2 micro servos and I RX PCM and this was in 1990's dollars. So to my eye all modern radio are dirt cheap! Especially Jeti as it looks like it is a better firm.

To be clear all products have limitations.

But no I don't want to go to Jeti. Because as of now it won't support object programing like OpenTX. Should Jeti open up their code to allow OpenTX and the FAA has figured out how to truly incorporate "drones" then I'll jump!

All the best,
Konrad

So really, I have to update for all my FrSky receivers (Hitec and FrSky - all variants), Modules/Transmitters. I want to stay with OpenTX. How about the other humble Chinese brands? FlySky, Assan, Corona, etc...They use some variants of OpenTX.

 

[Konrad]

No, just those that use the XJT module. What is the core tech of the Hitec module you are referencing? Got a link?

Assan, and Corona run OpenTX? I'll need to look into that and the firms.

 

[Hank]

No, just those that use the XJT module. What is the core tech of the Hitec module you are referencing? Got a link?

Assan, and Corona run OpenTX? I'll need to look into that and the firms.

I know the Turnigy TXs use an older version of OpenTX, but I might be wrong. I only base this assumption on sales adds, not actual experience.

When you say XJT module, that also includes the internal modules, right? That means ACCST D8, ACCST D16, and ACCESS. So half my receivers are in trouble. The FrSky HITEC compatible receivers run off a HITEC external RF module in my QX7. But from what you said, they are also impacted because of the digital interface from the TX to the RF module being the culprit.

 

[Konrad]

I don't know about the TX programing to XJT (internal and external) interface. My understanding of the issue is XJT and the receiver algorithms. This is why there are two concurrent FW updates. Who was the OEM for Turnigy? With all the rebranding and behind the scenes corporate contract, not to mention clones it is often difficult to actually trace all the market implication of issue like this.

 

[Wayne]

Ok - I will admit that I breezed over most of the posts in this thread, sorry, I wish I had more time.

Here is my take on the ACCST 2 firmware - We are not yet suggesting people use it. We asked and expected FrSky to give us more time to fully test this firmware but they instead decided to roll it out. As we are seeing in reports it is not ready for use yet. This is an extremely rare issue for those that do not fly with the EU firmwares (LBT). To be clear, this is VERY RARE chance of this if you are running FCC firmware as most all of the Aloft customers should be doing.

I still consider the FrSky RF link more reliable than anything from Team Failsafe. You all have been flying with this system for about 9 years now, it has a solid track record here in the USA. Once the ACCST update is fully tested we will fully support it and suggest the change at that time. For now I would not install it.

-Wayne