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Universal ACCST Firmware (UNI)
- Thread starter Wayne
- Start date
MikeB
Very Strong User
The problem is if an update is made available as a download, it also becomes available to anyone to update any existing (or cloned) receiver.
However, I think I have a solution that means any update will only work if the original (dealer installed) firmware has been used.
Mike
However, I think I have a solution that means any update will only work if the original (dealer installed) firmware has been used.
Mike
So this isn't to benefit the community but to reduce support issues for the retailers..... thank you for confirming this. We could have been made aware of this in the first post.
this is what I want to hear! I'm in touch with Engel (German dealer) und looking forward for the first tests
The thought of having to remove all my receivers, pack them, ship them (through a system bogged down due to covid) pay shipping cost (that have skyrocketed due to covid) pay a small fee to have the firmware installed and possibly have to wait a long time to get my receivers back (due to a surge in receivers being sent to you for updates) and then wait for my receivers to go through said bogged down shipping systems.
This scenario doesn't address what happens if the updated receivers come back with unforseen issues from the update process. We will have to repeat this scenario again.
During all of this I'm not flying ! !
Before I say anything else let me say, Thank you for all your hard work ! I applaud everyone for your efforts!
I see two possibilities, one I will have to go through the above scenario or two swap out receivers one or two at a time (I have at least 15 to 20 receivers) and wait for them to come back, repeat.
Neither are a very attractive options.
I feel the better option is for you to do whatever is necessary to protect your firmware legally and make it available for download.
Or since my receivers have the v2 firmware in them, buy the new Tandem x20. I'll be able to use all my receivers without having to remove them from my airplanes and send them in for updates. Plus not only will I be able to use all my existing receivers but also be able to use the new ACCESS, 900MHz receivers and the soon to be Tandem receivers.
I guess what I'm saying is: The firmware not being downloadable is a Big Deal ! It makes me think there is a better option and that is: spend the money on a new transmitter. One purchase,one shipment, more versatile.
Just my opinion.
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Flying Dutchman
Strong User
OK @Wayne , there you have it! Just put your vast legal department on this and show those cloners who's boss! LOL, I love it.
And you know who would love it even more? Those cloners in China and elsewhere, to whom Intellectual Property Rights mean absolutely nothing.
Johntaylor1966
New User
Any ideas on when this will be available?
(Cloners have already copied FrSky receivers and firmwares and sold them and been forced to stop via the legal system in China. In this case, we have made something that would.
I love it when people don't read posts in there entirety.
I Love It ! lol
I retracted the 1st two sentences of my post.
It doesn't make the rest of the post any less true. imo
OK folks - Sorry was away for a day. Yes, once the Universal ACCST firmware has been installed on your receiver, any future updates could be had via a download. No need to send the receivers in for an update. Also, if you for some reason you want to go back to a FrSky firmware, you can do that too. You are not forced to stay with the Universal ACCST firmware.
Hope this helps!
We will have more receivers from FrSky in a few days we will be burning the firmware onto them and sending them out to the new Beta testers, give them a few weeks to do their testing and Maybe then we can look at a full blown release. At this point the firmware has rather extensive testing performed around the globe by a smallish group of folks that range from normal RC pilots to very advanced (makes my head spin) radio system professionals. I dare say it has more testing than any FrSky RF firmware has received in the past. This final round of testing is to accumulate hours and make sure we have covered all bases. Find the sorts of things that only pop up in real world use.
And someone asked about being able to identify what version of the firmware is installed on a receiver, YES, that is also built in as well as a few other very useful tools used during the testing.
Hope this helps!
We will have more receivers from FrSky in a few days we will be burning the firmware onto them and sending them out to the new Beta testers, give them a few weeks to do their testing and Maybe then we can look at a full blown release. At this point the firmware has rather extensive testing performed around the globe by a smallish group of folks that range from normal RC pilots to very advanced (makes my head spin) radio system professionals. I dare say it has more testing than any FrSky RF firmware has received in the past. This final round of testing is to accumulate hours and make sure we have covered all bases. Find the sorts of things that only pop up in real world use.
And someone asked about being able to identify what version of the firmware is installed on a receiver, YES, that is also built in as well as a few other very useful tools used during the testing.
Good day Wayne,
So after one of the service shops has programmed the new firmware, it is possible to go back and forth between FrSky and MikeB firmware?
Or can you only use MikeB firmware afterwards, as going back to FrSky firmware will also 'delete' the bootloader needed for the MikeB firmware?
Flying Dutchman
Strong User
Apparently I touched on a nerve with my post - sorry if I upset you, it was meant in jest.
But seriously: you really should read Wayne's post earlier in this thread carefully. He clearly points out that this new firmware is an initiative by 4 independent hobby shops or dealers, NOT by FrSky. Regarding the previous legal action: FrSky and the cloners operate in China, so FrSky was able to stop them from using FrSky's IP through the Chinese legal system. Unless you have very deep pockets, or have your own legal team (which obviously these hobby shops don't), going after the cloners from the US or Europe is a non-starter. You can register your product and perhaps patent the technology (which takes time and money), but unless you have a few $MM set aside to enforce it, that's a waste of time and money. Unfortunately, I've seen this many times in Silicon Valley.
Yeah I'm sorry, I don't know why I snapped back at you.
I REALLY am not "that guy".
Plus I agree there is no way to protect the firmware once its out there for all to download.
The rest of the post is, I guess Me Thinking Out Loud.
Trying to decide which is the best course to take. Should I update receivers or upgrade to the new transmitter or both.
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If it helps any on that decision, the goal was to breath new life into the older gear and help to maintain ACCST into the future, and also cut down on the confusion for our customers. Prior to ACCST V2 we hardly ever had anyone asking us "how do I bind this?" These days we get that question a lot and we have frustrated customers, and heck, I run one ACCESS radio and one ACCST radio and am constantly running into this issue. This new firmware makes that whole mess go away. For me with both new and old transmitters in use, I can have a single firmware and use either radio without having to change the firmware on the receiver. Even better, with the dual bind, I can use either or BOTH transmitters with the same plane. I think that is a win, win, win.
But for us, the best thing is we can sell receivers with Universal installed and they will work for ALL of our customers. Cuts down on the technical service and customer frustration. This should be the most trouble free protocol for FrSky radios. Thanks to the extra work Mike and the team put into this firmware these receivers should enjoy better range and a more reliable connection with Universal installed.
But for us, the best thing is we can sell receivers with Universal installed and they will work for ALL of our customers. Cuts down on the technical service and customer frustration. This should be the most trouble free protocol for FrSky radios. Thanks to the extra work Mike and the team put into this firmware these receivers should enjoy better range and a more reliable connection with Universal installed.
Landru
Strong User
Kudos to Aloft and Mike B. for coming up with the universal ACCST firmware.
Doubtless, it will prevent frustration for folks who aren't aware of the v1/v2 incompatibility or aren't savvy about flashing firmware. The problem arises on RCG continually. I can only imagine the support requests in must generate for Aloft and other vendors. Yikes.
On a personal note, even though I've moved to v2 and tried ACCESS, I'm potentially interested in moving back to v1.
Why on earth would anyone do that, you ask. I can see a couple of reasons. First, v1 (except for some of the very last versions) was free from the lost frames data manipulation present in v2. That's a not a big deal for most, I'll grant you, but it is a factor for me. Second and more important, v1 has better range than v2 according to reports I find reliable. Certainly, my experience is that both v1 and v2 have better range than ACCESS. Most of my flying locations are in an urban setting, so perhaps RF noise is a factor in the ranges I can achieve.
On that last point of RF noise, can I ask a little more about the universal firmware's mitigation of the USM problem in v1?
I read earlier in this discussion that the mitigation very quickly corrects any USM except in cases of very severe interference. As someone who very likely experienced multiple USM and many telemetry errors with v1, I wonder if I'm facing extreme interference. If so, perhaps I'd be best to continue to avoid v1.
I'm curious to know if any light can be shed on the topic by those familiar with the inner workings of the universal firmware. I fly FCC not LBT. I'm located in a major city on the west coast of Canada.
P.S. A big thanks to Aloft for bringing ACCST receivers back into production!!
Doubtless, it will prevent frustration for folks who aren't aware of the v1/v2 incompatibility or aren't savvy about flashing firmware. The problem arises on RCG continually. I can only imagine the support requests in must generate for Aloft and other vendors. Yikes.
On a personal note, even though I've moved to v2 and tried ACCESS, I'm potentially interested in moving back to v1.
Why on earth would anyone do that, you ask. I can see a couple of reasons. First, v1 (except for some of the very last versions) was free from the lost frames data manipulation present in v2. That's a not a big deal for most, I'll grant you, but it is a factor for me. Second and more important, v1 has better range than v2 according to reports I find reliable. Certainly, my experience is that both v1 and v2 have better range than ACCESS. Most of my flying locations are in an urban setting, so perhaps RF noise is a factor in the ranges I can achieve.
On that last point of RF noise, can I ask a little more about the universal firmware's mitigation of the USM problem in v1?
I read earlier in this discussion that the mitigation very quickly corrects any USM except in cases of very severe interference. As someone who very likely experienced multiple USM and many telemetry errors with v1, I wonder if I'm facing extreme interference. If so, perhaps I'd be best to continue to avoid v1.
I'm curious to know if any light can be shed on the topic by those familiar with the inner workings of the universal firmware. I fly FCC not LBT. I'm located in a major city on the west coast of Canada.
P.S. A big thanks to Aloft for bringing ACCST receivers back into production!!
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I'll take a crack at this, but Mike can do a better and more technical response.
The V1 USM (uncommanded servo movement) is a error that occurs when some bad data is accepted by the receiver. This can happen as the receiver is not fully checking the quality of the data in the entire packet. So a bad packet has a small chance to be accepted by the receiver. The packet data is basically arrives in a given order. For example, the first number would be channel one, the second number channel two, etc. There is nothing that states, channel one equals 1500, it just says 1500 in the correct place. This all works fine as long as the data is correct. If the receiver approves a bad packet of data, then you get random servo movements. With the Universal firmware there are additional checks in place to catch this bad data and reject, thus the issue that was already VERY rare is almost completely eliminated. But just in case a further measure was added that should a bad packet manage to pass both quality checks, the USM would only last 18ms as the firmware no longer accepts any data from the previous packet as being valid. (something V1 did to save on workload..?) So the next packet of data comes in, gets checked twice, etc.. With V1 I forget how long the USM could last, but it was a much longer time frame, and the risks of more bad packets being accepted was much higher.
I've probably done a horrible job and may not have the details fully correct here, but this is my understanding based on my memory. Sure mike will correct any major flaws.
The takeaway is that Universal has multiple improvements to fight USM making it the better choice. The other major addition is the AutoTune feature, for some receiver transmitter combinations will net noticeable range & packet performance. Basically AutoTune does a series of tests of the RF connection and adjusts the tune slightly and checks to see if the connection is better or worse, and it does this until it finds the sweet spot. Since all radio gear has some tolerances due to the components used, the frequencies can shift up or down slightly. The AutoTune adjusts for this to get the best signal from the transmitter. Just like tuning an old stereo system to remove the static from a music broadcast. (Younger people may not know what that was like, LOL.) To me this is possibly the most exciting improvement in this firmware.
The V1 USM (uncommanded servo movement) is a error that occurs when some bad data is accepted by the receiver. This can happen as the receiver is not fully checking the quality of the data in the entire packet. So a bad packet has a small chance to be accepted by the receiver. The packet data is basically arrives in a given order. For example, the first number would be channel one, the second number channel two, etc. There is nothing that states, channel one equals 1500, it just says 1500 in the correct place. This all works fine as long as the data is correct. If the receiver approves a bad packet of data, then you get random servo movements. With the Universal firmware there are additional checks in place to catch this bad data and reject, thus the issue that was already VERY rare is almost completely eliminated. But just in case a further measure was added that should a bad packet manage to pass both quality checks, the USM would only last 18ms as the firmware no longer accepts any data from the previous packet as being valid. (something V1 did to save on workload..?) So the next packet of data comes in, gets checked twice, etc.. With V1 I forget how long the USM could last, but it was a much longer time frame, and the risks of more bad packets being accepted was much higher.
I've probably done a horrible job and may not have the details fully correct here, but this is my understanding based on my memory. Sure mike will correct any major flaws.
The takeaway is that Universal has multiple improvements to fight USM making it the better choice. The other major addition is the AutoTune feature, for some receiver transmitter combinations will net noticeable range & packet performance. Basically AutoTune does a series of tests of the RF connection and adjusts the tune slightly and checks to see if the connection is better or worse, and it does this until it finds the sweet spot. Since all radio gear has some tolerances due to the components used, the frequencies can shift up or down slightly. The AutoTune adjusts for this to get the best signal from the transmitter. Just like tuning an old stereo system to remove the static from a music broadcast. (Younger people may not know what that was like, LOL.) To me this is possibly the most exciting improvement in this firmware.
Every Frsky rx I have was purchased at Aloft! I have no problem mailing them back for the initial universal download. I can simply keep a few for flying until I get them back and swap them out for the new versions. Then mail the remainder back to Aloft for another round of the initial universal firmware. All the while I'm still in the air. I can't fly them all at once anyway! Haha
Wayne, if it wasn't clear before, I maybe able to help w testing depending on the extent of such. I fly small and large sailplanes so improved range will be nice. Not that I really have any issues now.
Kirk
Wayne, if it wasn't clear before, I maybe able to help w testing depending on the extent of such. I fly small and large sailplanes so improved range will be nice. Not that I really have any issues now.
Kirk
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