Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Wow, Konrad - do you know anything about gynecology?
Or like me - just willing to have a go?
Nice job Dude!
Doc.
Or like me - just willing to have a go?
Nice job Dude!
Doc.
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TopModel Samsara 3.2 meter glider, build thread on Aloft's Forum.
Konrad
Very Strong User
Doc, You lost me with this.Wow, Konrad - do you know anything about gynecology?
Or like me - just willing to have a go?
Nice job Dude!?
Doc.
Thank you,
Yes like you I've learned that one must pay attention to detail, however small or cramped, if one hopes to have success in any endeavor one under takes.
All the best,
Konrad
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Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Konrad
Very Strong User
In an effort to save weight I've made my rear wiring loom as a hybrid of 26AWG and 22AWG wire using the common power bus bar architecture. The loss of 2 power leads (22AWG) has saved 14 grams. Changing the signal wire to 26AWG saved 4.25 grams. So by my high level maths I save 18.25 grams just in wire weight.
Now I'm normally loath to do this, but I hard wired the servos to the wire loom to save the weight of the connectors. I like to use connector to aid in serviceability should the servos need to be replaced. For field repairs I've tried butane soldering irons with limited success. When I was at my LHS (Aloft Hobbies) I found this neat ceramic heater battery powered soldering iron.
https://alofthobbies.com/xt60-portable-soldering-iron.html
With this iron in my back pack I thought I'd take the chance and loose the weight of the connectors. Should I need to replace the servos I included some pre-installed strain reliefs in the wiring loom.
Reading some comments for the Samsara on RCGoofs*, I see that some folks have had to resort to adding a lot of nose weight. Base on this (I assume this was to meet the 70mm CofG) I can claim another 42 grams of weight saving assuming a tail to nose ratio of about 2.5:1. For a grand total of 60 grams of weight savings.
* RCGoofs - Not so much because of the membership (there is some of that) but rather the management's total lack of transparency in their moderation policies. RCG, It's a wild and goofy organization!
What has happened there in the last few years? It is infected with all sorts of click bait ads. Really, as unpaid editorial contributors you shouldn't be forced to deal with these!
Now I'm normally loath to do this, but I hard wired the servos to the wire loom to save the weight of the connectors. I like to use connector to aid in serviceability should the servos need to be replaced. For field repairs I've tried butane soldering irons with limited success. When I was at my LHS (Aloft Hobbies) I found this neat ceramic heater battery powered soldering iron.
https://alofthobbies.com/xt60-portable-soldering-iron.html
With this iron in my back pack I thought I'd take the chance and loose the weight of the connectors. Should I need to replace the servos I included some pre-installed strain reliefs in the wiring loom.
Reading some comments for the Samsara on RCGoofs*, I see that some folks have had to resort to adding a lot of nose weight. Base on this (I assume this was to meet the 70mm CofG) I can claim another 42 grams of weight saving assuming a tail to nose ratio of about 2.5:1. For a grand total of 60 grams of weight savings.
* RCGoofs - Not so much because of the membership (there is some of that) but rather the management's total lack of transparency in their moderation policies. RCG, It's a wild and goofy organization!
What has happened there in the last few years? It is infected with all sorts of click bait ads. Really, as unpaid editorial contributors you shouldn't be forced to deal with these!
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Konrad
Very Strong User
Much of engineering is about spreading (now watch it 
!) the loads. Much like the fillet we added to the motor mount an epoxy fillet should be added to the rear servo mounts.
I can't stress enough the importance of a good servo mounting platform back here. You might recall a Volvo car commercial where they ran a car into a wall. Yep, the nose crunched as expected but the shock wave blew off the tail lights! As my good landing often look like that, the tail does see a lot of force even on good landings. So I make a large epoxy fillets from 30 minute epoxy and about 4 time that much by volume micro-balloons. The micro balloon save weight and adds a bit of flexibility to the fillet.
!) the loads. Much like the fillet we added to the motor mount an epoxy fillet should be added to the rear servo mounts.I can't stress enough the importance of a good servo mounting platform back here. You might recall a Volvo car commercial where they ran a car into a wall. Yep, the nose crunched as expected but the shock wave blew off the tail lights! As my good landing often look like that, the tail does see a lot of force even on good landings. So I make a large epoxy fillets from 30 minute epoxy and about 4 time that much by volume micro-balloons. The micro balloon save weight and adds a bit of flexibility to the fillet.
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Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Wow...performance to last Konrad!
All good stuff!
Doc.
All good stuff!
Doc.
Konrad
Very Strong User
Starting to see the home stretch. I'd like to ask how do you guys mount the aileron servos?
In the past I've encapsulated the servo's body in heat wrap and then glued the heat wrapped servo to the wing with epoxy and micro-balloons. This makes servo field replacement easy. Just cut the heat wrap lift up the servo peal away the heat wrap from the epoxy bed. To install just drop in a heat wrapped servo with a drop of CA on the epoxy bed. I've also seen guys use silicone adhesive with some dental floss embedded in the silicone under the servo as a cut wire.
I'm looking for a light weight (trying to keep the weight out of the tips) servo mounting system that can still allow for somewhat easy replacement. I like the epoxy bed but have had servos pop loose prematurely.
In the past I've encapsulated the servo's body in heat wrap and then glued the heat wrapped servo to the wing with epoxy and micro-balloons. This makes servo field replacement easy. Just cut the heat wrap lift up the servo peal away the heat wrap from the epoxy bed. To install just drop in a heat wrapped servo with a drop of CA on the epoxy bed. I've also seen guys use silicone adhesive with some dental floss embedded in the silicone under the servo as a cut wire.
I'm looking for a light weight (trying to keep the weight out of the tips) servo mounting system that can still allow for somewhat easy replacement. I like the epoxy bed but have had servos pop loose prematurely.
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More and more I have been using a rubberized glue to mount servos. This is the stuff I have been using lately, but there are many options out there.
https://alofthobbies.com/foam-cure.html
https://alofthobbies.com/foam-cure.html
Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
I use my own trays, but if not I simply wrap masking tape around the body and glue it in.
I have used Silicon rubber but you need the high quality aquarium stuff.
Without doubt the safest is rubberized glue like silicon but its not field replaceable.
Cheers,
Doc.
Konrad
Very Strong User
Thanks guys! I put it on my wish list.
I have a question about repairs/replacement with this glue. It is my experiance that nothing stick well to silicone not even silicone. Do you guys strip off all the vulcanized glue, loosing any index potential, to give the wet glue a clean surface?
I have a question about repairs/replacement with this glue. It is my experiance that nothing stick well to silicone not even silicone. Do you guys strip off all the vulcanized glue, loosing any index potential, to give the wet glue a clean surface?
Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
I do but with aquarium silicon, you will never get it all off. It does however seem to stick quite well to itself if very freshly cleaned. I use a modified chisel to cut it all off, then clean with acetone and then immediately replace it.
Remember the Aquarium type is completely different from the waterproofing caulk you might find in a hardware store.
Cheers,
J.
Remember the Aquarium type is completely different from the waterproofing caulk you might find in a hardware store.
Cheers,
J.
Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Konrad
Very Strong User
With the advent of the CA hinge and the general acceptance of the tape hinge many have forgotten how to install pinned hinges.
There are two key concerns with the pinned hinge. The main one is to keep the glue out of the hinge line. I use petroleum jelly which I've heated to a low viscosity, close to that of water. I then fold over the hinge and dip only the hinge line (axis) into the puddle. The thinned petroleum jelly will flow into the hinge but it also offers a second barrier against the glue. That is when it cools it make a thick physical barrier keeping the glue away from the hinge line.
The second concern is that the hinge pins must be in the same line (a geometry term). Use the rudder (control surface) to aid with this alignment. You want the hinge to move only at the hinge line. It can't be allowed to move in the slots. Along with this hinge line alignment you will want to get the hinge line gap (post and rudder) to be less than 0.25mm wide and still allow full motion of the control surface. (As I like all the control throw I can get for the rudder I aim for 45° movement each way).
To glue in the hinge I use 30 minute epoxy and wet the hinge's mounting tab with a thin layer of epoxy. I insert the tab into the rudder post. Then on the back side (forward) of the rudder post I make an epoxy fillet after forcing the epoxy into the hinge's keys (holes). I then temporarily install the rudder to align the hinge pins. Set aside and let the epoxy set.
There are two key concerns with the pinned hinge. The main one is to keep the glue out of the hinge line. I use petroleum jelly which I've heated to a low viscosity, close to that of water. I then fold over the hinge and dip only the hinge line (axis) into the puddle. The thinned petroleum jelly will flow into the hinge but it also offers a second barrier against the glue. That is when it cools it make a thick physical barrier keeping the glue away from the hinge line.
The second concern is that the hinge pins must be in the same line (a geometry term). Use the rudder (control surface) to aid with this alignment. You want the hinge to move only at the hinge line. It can't be allowed to move in the slots. Along with this hinge line alignment you will want to get the hinge line gap (post and rudder) to be less than 0.25mm wide and still allow full motion of the control surface. (As I like all the control throw I can get for the rudder I aim for 45° movement each way).
To glue in the hinge I use 30 minute epoxy and wet the hinge's mounting tab with a thin layer of epoxy. I insert the tab into the rudder post. Then on the back side (forward) of the rudder post I make an epoxy fillet after forcing the epoxy into the hinge's keys (holes). I then temporarily install the rudder to align the hinge pins. Set aside and let the epoxy set.
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Konrad
Very Strong User
After the epoxy has set up but before it is cured I like to add an epoxy fillet to the back side of the hinges. This will make it all but impossible for any flutter to pull the hinge out of the tail post. To save weight I trim the hinge tab that is offering no glue area.
To install the tail post into the vertical fin I wet the perimeter of both the tail post and the inside of the fin where the post will be bonded (do sand the area first). As I'm sure you didn't shape the tail post to fit perfectly with the fin there will be some gaps. Apply 30 minute epoxy and micro-balloon mixture to any expected areas were a gap may appear. I also add this mixture to anticipated high stress areas, like near the servos.
Fit tail post into fin. Pushing the tail post into the fin will result in there being a small fillet made in the inside corners. Tape fin sides to the tail post, by pulling the tape alternating from the right and left sides. This is to keep from inducing a twist in the vertical fin.
To install the tail post into the vertical fin I wet the perimeter of both the tail post and the inside of the fin where the post will be bonded (do sand the area first). As I'm sure you didn't shape the tail post to fit perfectly with the fin there will be some gaps. Apply 30 minute epoxy and micro-balloon mixture to any expected areas were a gap may appear. I also add this mixture to anticipated high stress areas, like near the servos.
Fit tail post into fin. Pushing the tail post into the fin will result in there being a small fillet made in the inside corners. Tape fin sides to the tail post, by pulling the tape alternating from the right and left sides. This is to keep from inducing a twist in the vertical fin.
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Konrad
Very Strong User
Wow, I now understand why so many folks want to use 5 minute epoxy. It has taken me 7 hours to install the rudder. But please don't use 5 minute epoxy! This model deserves better! 5 minute epoxy doesn't bond well nor does it give enough time to align all the parts in all three dimensions!
Please note: that I'm working after each step has reached the set point of the epoxy about 1 to 2 hours after I first mix the epoxy batch. I'm not waiting for full cure of the epoxy.
To finally install the rudder wet the hinge pads forcing epoxy into the keys (holes). Now the hard part how to get epoxy in the hinge slots? I like to fill a soda straw with epoxy. (You can use the ram method scooping the epoxy in or do as I do and carefully suck it in. Please don't allow air flow as this may result in inhaling fumes!). Pinch the tip and inject the straw into the slot. From behind the glue blog roll your fingers to push out the epoxy from the straw into the slot. A little goes a long way. That's it this glue and the wetted hinge will give a very good bond. Clean off any excess. Align the hinges with the slot and gently puss the rudder into place. There should be very little epoxy that come squishing out. Again clean up any excess with a paper towel or the backside of a #11 blade. Make sure you have 0.25 mm or less gap and that the hinge is pivoting on the hinge line as it should.
I like to set the rudder off to the side should there be any epoxy that got on the hinge line. With the added grease it shouldn't make a good bond so it will be easy to break and clean away this epoxy. But should there be a slight bind it won't be around center causing a detent problem that would mess with ones flight trim attempts.
Please note: that I'm working after each step has reached the set point of the epoxy about 1 to 2 hours after I first mix the epoxy batch. I'm not waiting for full cure of the epoxy.
To finally install the rudder wet the hinge pads forcing epoxy into the keys (holes). Now the hard part how to get epoxy in the hinge slots? I like to fill a soda straw with epoxy. (You can use the ram method scooping the epoxy in or do as I do and carefully suck it in. Please don't allow air flow as this may result in inhaling fumes!). Pinch the tip and inject the straw into the slot. From behind the glue blog roll your fingers to push out the epoxy from the straw into the slot. A little goes a long way. That's it this glue and the wetted hinge will give a very good bond. Clean off any excess. Align the hinges with the slot and gently puss the rudder into place. There should be very little epoxy that come squishing out. Again clean up any excess with a paper towel or the backside of a #11 blade. Make sure you have 0.25 mm or less gap and that the hinge is pivoting on the hinge line as it should.
I like to set the rudder off to the side should there be any epoxy that got on the hinge line. With the added grease it shouldn't make a good bond so it will be easy to break and clean away this epoxy. But should there be a slight bind it won't be around center causing a detent problem that would mess with ones flight trim attempts.
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Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Hey Aloft guys!
How about a new section on how to's??
This is really good stuff from Konrad, and I have to say the advice I got on wiring etc was incredibly useful too.
How about a new section on how to's??
This is really good stuff from Konrad, and I have to say the advice I got on wiring etc was incredibly useful too.
Konrad
Very Strong User
Doc,
Aw shucks, Thanks (blush
).
I too have learned a thing or two from you and Wayne.
But isn't that what the forums are all about, helping and learning how to accomplish things in detail? Now many folks try to use them a social substitute for actually going out in the world. This is fraught with problems particularly when folks try to defend the indefensible (emotional actions, like poor purchases, or being duped by ad campaigns).
As a contributing editor I have concerns that I'd need to double post. That is show what I'm doing in the product build thread. And then write up a detailed explanation (like I'm not already too wordy
) in a "How to Thread". But as a forum user it would be nice to find proven processes without having to dig deep in a thread that otherwise would be of little interest to me.
Not sure how Wayne wants to use his server space.
I'm sure Aloft (Wayne) started this forum to try to regain much of what has been lost at the other forum site when it changed from E-Zone to RCGoofs. E-zone was a great source of information for the then new burgeoning power source. It was a great resource when innovators like, Steve Neu, Matt Orme, Bob Boucher, Keith Shaw and others that actual engaged with each other and the membership to move the science forward, free of marketing hype. (This was known as the information highway) Now that RCG is owned by an ad agency it is all about the drama and click counts!
Now as Aloft is a business, I'm sure Wayne is using the site to asses customer issues and market demand/movement. I hope that these posts not only help the membership get the most from the product, but also help sales of truly great products worthy of our consideration. I also hope that this feedback to Wayne and the OEMs will improve the products in the market place.
All the best,
Konrad
Aw shucks, Thanks (blush
).I too have learned a thing or two from you and Wayne.
But isn't that what the forums are all about, helping and learning how to accomplish things in detail? Now many folks try to use them a social substitute for actually going out in the world. This is fraught with problems particularly when folks try to defend the indefensible (emotional actions, like poor purchases, or being duped by ad campaigns).
As a contributing editor I have concerns that I'd need to double post. That is show what I'm doing in the product build thread. And then write up a detailed explanation (like I'm not already too wordy
) in a "How to Thread". But as a forum user it would be nice to find proven processes without having to dig deep in a thread that otherwise would be of little interest to me.Not sure how Wayne wants to use his server space.
I'm sure Aloft (Wayne) started this forum to try to regain much of what has been lost at the other forum site when it changed from E-Zone to RCGoofs. E-zone was a great source of information for the then new burgeoning power source. It was a great resource when innovators like, Steve Neu, Matt Orme, Bob Boucher, Keith Shaw and others that actual engaged with each other and the membership to move the science forward, free of marketing hype. (This was known as the information highway) Now that RCG is owned by an ad agency it is all about the drama and click counts!
Now as Aloft is a business, I'm sure Wayne is using the site to asses customer issues and market demand/movement. I hope that these posts not only help the membership get the most from the product, but also help sales of truly great products worthy of our consideration. I also hope that this feedback to Wayne and the OEMs will improve the products in the market place.
All the best,
Konrad
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Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Hi Konrad,
I think, along the street of making up the models we love; sometimes pass some areas which are common to a lot of modeling jobs. These, like your hinging know how etc, are not really specific to the actual model being made.
Rather than re-write these helpful nuggets of knowledge, I was thinking instead of "This part has also been posted to the Know how section". To be honest, I don't this would be very server memory gobbling, but would serve to make up an expanding database that could be used by all.
It's a bit like Chinese: If you know ten words you can say a hundred things.
Now for the rant:
As to the downward spiral of RCG, I don't this anybody has felt at the brunt of this decline in responsible moral standards more than I.
Before these sometimes rather sad, but always rather pathetic experiences, I had only heard the label "Internet Troll" from time to time without really understanding what it meant. Over the last year, lets say I have, not by choice; gathered a very thorough understanding.
But in any case this is a thread about all the GOOD things, so lets leave the bad guys in the holes where they flourish and all help to keep this forum good.
Doc.
I think, along the street of making up the models we love; sometimes pass some areas which are common to a lot of modeling jobs. These, like your hinging know how etc, are not really specific to the actual model being made.
Rather than re-write these helpful nuggets of knowledge, I was thinking instead of "This part has also been posted to the Know how section". To be honest, I don't this would be very server memory gobbling, but would serve to make up an expanding database that could be used by all.
It's a bit like Chinese: If you know ten words you can say a hundred things.
Now for the rant:
As to the downward spiral of RCG, I don't this anybody has felt at the brunt of this decline in responsible moral standards more than I.
Before these sometimes rather sad, but always rather pathetic experiences, I had only heard the label "Internet Troll" from time to time without really understanding what it meant. Over the last year, lets say I have, not by choice; gathered a very thorough understanding.
But in any case this is a thread about all the GOOD things, so lets leave the bad guys in the holes where they flourish and all help to keep this forum good.
Doc.
Konrad
Very Strong User
I understand your position . But I don't subscribe to the notion of letting the dregs of society a pass in the name of civility. I hold folks (management) to their stated goal, or rule of law (constitution). And then I try to bring their failures to light, holding them accountable. It is often unpleasant work, but to date it has been very profitable for me to sell poor management short. Leaving the bad guys in their holes only allows the cancer to grow. The only way I know how to improve inept, and despicable management or leadership is to out their gross misuse and abuse.
With any luck we can bring about positive change .
With any luck we can bring about positive change .
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