Thumbs up! Or not?

[Doc James Hammond]

Having seen more new transmitters - especially the Aloft single stick project - with stick end knobs or switches recently, I wonder what the thumbs up brigade do.

When I escaped from competition control line and started R/C in 1066 - actually it was about 1975 - I looked at both mode 1 and mode 2 and also controlling the model by thumbs or multiple fingers.

For the physical connection - me to the transmitter, I soon found that I couldn't easily write my name accurately with my thumb alone because I did not have truly free X-Y movement; so that would be a natural limit that I would never overcome. If I try to move my right (Aileon/Elevator) thumb exactly left to right, or exactly up and down the damn digit does not follow my instructions exactly in any direction, including the pressure or position over the transmitter stick. Try it.
So I went for the pencil grip on the right and thumb/forefinger grip on the left. This seemed and still seems natural to me.
When I have asked the thumb guys, they vehemently cry that their thumbs are perfectly accurate and some aver that thumbs are actually superior to the multiple finger method. Soooo: I guess its me. My thumbs certainly are not.

As to mode 1 Vs Mode 2, that was easy too. Mentally and even a little bit physically I tend to somehow feel the movement of the model, maybe in the same way as a 'seat of the pants' pilot feels his plane moving from his backside and other senses, so my natural inclination was to follow the full-sized arrangement of thottle on the left and elevator ailerons on one stick on the right. Again this seems to be natural to me. I can fly mode 1 but I'm not very comfortable as it just doesn't seem natural to split my primary controls. But again, the thumbs brigade say that its better - but they dont say why - and I'd just need to get used to it.

I wonder how many thumbers there are these days - thumbs are CERTAINLY no good for a single stick

Doc.

 

[Konrad]

There is no right or wrong way.

I've flown Mode 1 & 2 , and Single Stick. Of the ones mentioned Single Stick is the most "natural". Mode 1 is the best as far as mental effort. Brain folks tell me that I'm using more of my brain (both left and right hemispheres). The most awkward is mode 2 with the cross talk in the digit motion. This is why I like the Multiplex gimbal as it minimizes this.

So what do I fly ? Mode 2 as it is the standard in the USA. And it is what most students are told to fly.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

There is no right or wrong way.

I've flown Mode 1 & 2 , and Single Stick. Of the ones mentioned Single Stick is the most "natural". Mode 1 is the best as far as mental effort. Brain folks tell me that I'm using more of my brain (both left and right hemispheres). The most awkward is mode 2 with the cross talk in the digit motion. This is why I like the Multiplex gimbal as it minimizes this.

So what do I fly ? Mode 2 as it is the standard in the USA. And it is what most students are told to fly.

Cross talk sounds like thumbs - How about thumbs Vs Fingers?

Doc.

 

[Raymond Gaskins]

Cross talk sounds like thumbs - How about thumbs Vs Fingers?

Doc.

For what it’s worth, I was a thumber for about 40 years. Then I went to RC Flight School to improve my precision aerobatics performance. My instructor, Dave Scott, spent two years of coaching me to switch me to gripping the control sticks as you do Doc. This was not easy for me as I kept reverting to thumbing, but once I got your method imprinted in my brain, my precision aerobatic performance rapidly improved. I have spent the last 8 years working with Dave Scott and enjoyed every minute of it. I have no interest in IMAC, but compete with myself and am pleased with my progress. I don’t dismiss that thumbing may work for some but have observed that drone racers and 3D pilots are primarily thumbers whereas many precision flyers are stick grippers.
Raymond

 

[Konrad]

Both are prone to arc movements. Both can make linear movements.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Both are prone to arc movements. Both can make linear movements.

You are probably right, Konrad - for me I don't think I have full control of my thumbs, and also I tend to use the centering mechanisms on the transmitter pots as a tactile reference - which I also find hard to do with thumbs.

I just can't seem make my thumbs describe accurate and linear up and down or side to side movements. With thmbs I tend to deveiate along the paths in both directions.

Doc.

 

[Konrad]

...

I just can't seem make my thumbs describe accurate and linear up and down or side to side movements. With thumbs I tend to deviate along the paths in both directions.

Doc.

The carpometacarpal joint is the predominate joint used in both schemes, which is the source of most of this arc problem. But both the thumb and forefinger have other joints to get that linear motion. Some folks looking at this issue see only the top view cuciform movement. But if taking a side look you see there is also a large arc from the stick length.

I will point to the fact that there are world champions from both camps! So again I'll state there is no right or wrong way to hold the gimbals.

Now we can debate stick tension! I flew heli's in the old days of the Heli Star. As this heli had little in the way of gyros she was a bit unstable, as a result one wanted little in the way of stick tension to over come when making corrections. I still set up my gimbals for a bit too loose a feel with fixed wing aircraft.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

The carpometacarpal joint is the predominate joint used in both schemes, which is the source of most of this arc problem. But both the thumb and forefinger have other joints to get that linear motion. Some folks looking at this issue see only the top view cuciform movement. But if taking a side look you see there is also a large arc from the stick length.

I will point to the fact that there are world champions from both camps! So again I'll state there is no right or wrong way to hold the gimbals.

Now we can debate stick tension! I flew heli's in the old days of the Heli Star. As this heli had little in the way of gyros she was a bit unstable, as a result one wanted little in the way of stick tension to over come when making corrections. I still set up my gimbals for a bit too loose a feel with fixed wing aircraft.

Personally, I think - and I may well be wrong - that the thumbers who are world champions are double world champions, as to me they have already overcome a huge disadvantage.

I use the stick tension as a reference when flying so I want to feel it - but on the other hand (sorry) I dont want to fight with it.

Doc.

 

[Hoqiam]

Hey Guys,
If I may, I would like to add my thoughts on the subject. I have flown Single Stick from the very beginning.
My first Single Stick TX was a ground based 2 tone-2 pulse Ace kit which had a small square hand held
box with a single stick held in the center by 4 springs. You held the box in your left hand and operated the stick
with your right, using your thumb and forefinger.

I have owned and flown many other SS radios since then, the last one being the Ace Micropro 8000.

Since then I have flown both modes 1 and 2 as needed to assist students to learn to fly their chosen Radios.
However I can not do "Precision Flying" with either.

What matters most, I feel, is what does your brain want you to do in the case of an emergency and the muscle
memory that results in your resolution of the situation. I can respond to virtually any sudden emergency faster
with my single stick, and without really thinking about it first.

So far I am Thumbs Up on my new Aloft SS, and especially to all of the guys who helped it happen.

Tom

 

[Konrad]

This is often a problem when trying to assess new ergonomic schemes. The one, one is use to will prevail. It takes a concerted effort to differentiate what one's comfortable with, from what is truly more efficient. To find the one that is best often will take a large unbiased sample. This would mean novices and how fast they reach a certain level of competence. Now we all know that statistics don't apply to the individual.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Hey Guys,
If I may, I would like to add my thoughts on the subject. I have flown Single Stick from the very beginning.
My first Single Stick TX was a ground based 2 tone-2 pulse Ace kit which had a small square hand held
box with a single stick held in the center by 4 springs. You held the box in your left hand and operated the stick
with your right, using your thumb and forefinger.

I have owned and flown many other SS radios since then, the last one being the Ace Micropro 8000.

Since then I have flown both modes 1 and 2 as needed to assist students to learn to fly their chosen Radios.
However I can not do "Precision Flying" with either.

What matters most, I feel, is what does your brain want you to do in the case of an emergency and the muscle
memory that results in your resolution of the situation. I can respond to virtually any sudden emergency faster
with my single stick, and without really thinking about it first.

So far I am Thumbs Up on my new Aloft SS, and especially to all of the guys who helped it happen.

Tom

Ah soooo... Of course, led by the competent Aloft crew, single stick is another emerging (again) entity that I'm glad to see, but the amount of bells and whistles that are likely to be festooned around that lonely stick would surely preclude it as being an option for the Thumbs Up brigade.

But....also, be aware that SS also comes with a Government Health Warning as that green-eyed SWMBO might object to you clasping that box of tricks so lovingly to your bosom...In the UK we used to call them "Cuddle Boxes"

As to reaction time and muscle memory, I'm sure it would apply to whatever was your preferred and longest mode of flying.

There is story or maybe a rumour behind "Mode 1" and "Mode 2" - lost in the sands of time.

Doc.