Taranis X-Lite S for DLG

[Konrad]

Well, I took advantage of Aloft's Black Friday sales and bought myself a X-Lite S. Now I need another TX like I need a hole in the head. But none of my current TX's have a form factor that is suitable for the body spin used in DLG launches. (The X9E is a no go)!! As this will be my dedicated DLG TX I though it might fit best under Gliders rather than in FrSky.

Now much to my surprise the Taranis X-Lite is too small for my small hands! With the as shipped battery caps the Taranis X-Lite S felt like it was going to flip out on my hand while holding down the momentary switch (launch mode). The extended battery caps allow the bottom of the leg to nestle in the palm much better, allowing the palm to leverage the TX legs against the clamping fingers. This places the caps as a must have item rather than an option!

Moving from a tray radio like the X9E the angle of the splaying legs makes it very very un-natural for a stick pincher. I find it all but impossible to move only one axis of the gimbals. This is forcing me to become the thumb driver. With the mode select switches being on the left side (my preference). I can't comfortably use the left gimbal with longer sticks. I don't think this is too much of an issue as I normally don't fineness the rudder a lot.

Now with the right gimbal I haven't totally given up on the resolution I'm use to with the pinched sticks. Much of this fine resolution just comes from pinchers using longer sticks. So while I think I'll be forced to thumb this radio I'm trying out FrSky's longer stick option.

Only having held the TX for less than an hour, two issues have come up.
First the extended battery caps are too shallow to accept the18650 cell. I'd like to see FrSky make the pocket 0.2mm deeper, or move the retention slot 0.2mm closer to the edge.
(I had to remove the battery heat shrink from the ends of the cell to get the caps on the TX body. Neg. end of cell is making contact with the bucket retention screws) I'll be grinding the screw heads down for clearance and allow the springs to do their job).

QB18650 3000mAh Li-ion Flat Top Battery

A great choice for powering RC radio gear, transmitters (such as the X-Lite series of radios) and other applications where the discharge will be below 6.4 amps.Sold individuallyCapacity3000mAhNominal Voltage3.7VCharging Current0.5CCharging Voltage4.2VMaximum Continuous Discharge Current...

alofthobbies.com

Second, it appears that trimming the primary (gimbal) controls is a two handed operation. This is unacceptable for an aircraft. I'll need to dig deeper into the software. There may be a way to programmatically hold down a button to free the hand allowing it to stay on the gimbal. Also they (FrSky/OpenTX might have a auto trim function like we had with the 80's Ace MicroPro 8000 TX. I assume all those patents have run out).

 

[Konrad]

Some other minor system integration issues. I don't see why FrSky can't extent the insert to allow the TX to fit the case with the larger battery caps. Anyone know of a properly fitted case for the X-lite S? Also I'd like to see the factory (FrSky) longer sticks come with stick protectors.

 

[Nigel]

I’ll admit I had similar first impressions to the X-Lite. It felt difficult to pinch with the radio (although I didn’t have extended battery caps) and the switches are extremely small. Considering I’m no DLG pilot, I usually set my launch mode to a two position switch, and no throttle related functions on launch. Technically wrong, perhaps, but it worked for me. I’d then set my thumb inside the gimbal recess to give myself a very good grip on the radio. I did this with my X7, and even with that I felt I had decent control over it when spinning around. I still have mixed feelings over the radio, but I’ve warmed up to it some. I’d probably have to use one for quite some time before I got accustomed to it. A radio to consider if I plan to launch my DLG very hard.

 

[Konrad]

The last time I flew a DLG (late 90's)it was set up so that launch mode had a bit of right rudder a touch of up and the flaps (ailerons) set up in reflex. This was done on a momentary switch. We held down the switch as we threw the glider. As the model rotated up as a result of the up trim we kept the switch held. When the glider was pointed in the direction we wanted we would release the momentary switch. This left the model in speed mode as it climbed. We would push over at the top of the climb and start to look for thermals (usually with the flaps in profile, {normal mode}).

Is this still the general mix profile?

 

[Kilrah]

Trim only requires 2 hands for throttle and rudder which are not used frequently and typically only while you have nothing more important to do.

 

[Konrad]

Typically and I rarely mix.

For example Mike Shellim's excellent templets use the left trims for elevator comp, differential adjustments & those are just two I can think of off the top of my head.

I'd like to see maybe a timed window where the button is pushed and the cross is used for say 7 seconds as a single hand left trim. Also maybe add a slewing offset like we had with the ACE MicroPro 8000 auto trim. From an ergonomic perspective the dual hand is a failure or a lazy solution at best.

I agree the left trims (mode 2) are generally on a second tier priority. But still these are flight controls and should be available to the pilot at the highest priority.

 

[thenated0g]

i love my original x-lite (red duh). It took a minute to get muscle memory moved over to it different shape, but i love the form factor in my backpack. So much lighter and more room for snacks.

 

[Konrad]

Does anybody at FrSky actually try to interface (use) with their products?

If trying to improve the ergonomics of the controller body by allowing the hands to rest more naturally, why didn't they move the gimbal axis to correspond with the thumb motion?
This would have again been an easy feature to incorporate. The great Multiplex Royal Evo has this feature. That is the gimbals can be rotated to fit the natural bias of the thumb and fingers. Again another lost opportunity by FrSky!

Also what the heck is it with all those dirt catchers? Really another failure for style points!

FrSky please think through your product offering. It won't be long before your competitors will leave you in the dust of poorly thought out user interfaces!

P.S.
FrSky while looking at the gimbal ergonomics you might notice that there are 2 trim crosses!

 

[Konrad]

It dawns on me that maybe the management at FrSky doesn't know what a slotted gimbal mounting pad might look like. Again this is done to help bring the gimbal axises in line with the thumb and finger motion.

Here are the insides of the Multiplex Royal Evo. I hope this helps with future product development.

 

[Konrad]

Now I don't know who is out of spec, Queen Battery or FrSky. ( But I'd put my money on the issue lying with FrSky). The QB 18650 don't fit the extended battery holder ends.
To gain the much needed clearance to allow the caps to fit I had to trim off the heat shrink from the bottom of the QB cell. This heat shrink was getting caught and torn up on the bucket hold down screws. To gain even a bit more clearance I ground down the head of the bucket hold down screws approx. 0.2mm.

 

[Kilrah]

Sounds like you might have protected cells, those are longer than normal and not really recommended for rc transmitter use.

 

[Konrad]

Sounds like you might have protected cells, those are longer than normal and not really recommended for rc transmitter use.

Hum, that makes sense. Thank you. Is there an industry standard for the 18650 cell? The QB 18650 cell is 65.5mm over all length (this includes the heat shrink wrap around).
Length (contact to contact) is just proud of the 65.2mm advertised length.

But these are the cells Aloft supplied. They appear to have a recessed positive button.

QB18650 3000mAh Li-ion Flat Top Battery

A great choice for powering RC radio gear, transmitters (such as the X-Lite series of radios) and other applications where the discharge will be below 6.4 amps.Sold individuallyCapacity3000mAhNominal Voltage3.7VCharging Current0.5CCharging Voltage4.2VMaximum Continuous Discharge Current...

alofthobbies.com

Now I don't have the prints (spec's) for ether the cell or the Taranis X-lite S. So I can't conclusively say where the issue lies. But based on the history we have with FrSky I'm pretty confident the issue lies with them! I'll confer with the FrSky dealer on this issue.

 

[Konrad]

Well, it is looking like I may owe FrSky an apology. It looks like there isn't a tight spec for the length of the 18650 cell.
The Samsung cell is shorter at 62.3mm.

18650 3500mAh Li-ion Flat Top Cell - INR18650-35E

Genuine cells at a great price, nuff said. INR18650-35E Li-Ion Rechargeable Flat Top 3.7V 3500mAh. This is one of the highest capacity 18650 cells available today, and we have a great price on them. Great for powering RC radio gear, transmitters and other applications where the discharge will...

alofthobbies.com

 

[Wayne]

Did your radio come with black 18650 caps or orange?

The orange ones fit my 18650 just fine. If you bought some black ones from us, they may be a little older, Frsky did make some changes to them as production increased.

Once the battery is in this radio you really should not need to remove it again. I'm not a big fan of battery clips on radios, but this is not really a clip, and I like the tight fit to keep everything solid. Perhaps yours is even tighter?



@Kilrah Rudder and Throttle Trim - I would love an option where I can click the button and the trim now adjusts the other gimbal. Click it again and it goes back to adjusting the trims of the first gimbal. Every time the button is pushed it can speak and say right or left gimbal trim so I can use the darn things in flight without looking. Like Konrad, I use these trims for adjusting mixes in flight. Taking a hand off both gimbals to adjust the mix is a pain in the butt! If this was an option at time of compile you could keep the current method as the default.

Hope that makes sense. Should I put this up on github or somewhere?

Thanks!

 

[Konrad]

Hum, my radio came with orange battery caps for the 18500 cell. Aloft supplied me with the longer black caps for the 18650 cell at my request, as these allowed the X-lite to fit my palm much more securely.

With the cells (QB 18650) I got, again from Aloft, the battery negative post was making contact with the cap insert screws. You could see this as the screw heads had torn into the heat shrink. (There is no need for the contact springs as the crew heads were making the electrical contact). Or put another way the battery holder with the FrSky black caps had a negative space (interference fit) with the QB cell.

This interference has resulted in damage to the tab contact clips.

As is typical Frsky has released products not suitable for the application. There is no way that the caps I received would work with 18650 cells spec'd to 65.2mm length. Trimming the heat shrink from the neg post of the cell and grinding down the screw heads does allow the tab and slot to lock the battery cap. But I suspect that the load on the tabs is far too high as the contact springs are coil bound.

Another total fail for FrSky is that I don't see any recommended battery size in the manual that comes with the X-lite S!

Am I asking too much from FrSky that their product fit and work the first time out of the box?

All the best,
Konrad

P.S.
On a positive note the update to OpenTX 2.3.10 went without a hitch. Thanks OpenTX! (I dread the horrors we will face when we try to use FrSky's OS Ethos. What can we do to instill into FrSky's management the need for an effective QA program?

 

[Wayne]

Your radio should have included a set of the longer caps in orange. ???

 

[Konrad]

Nope. So the X-lite is sold with both caps?

We can talk about this when I drop off the Hawk wing.

 

[Konrad]

When reading anything on the web I think it is a good idea to try to learn where the author is coming from.
This is not a review of the Taranis X-lite S. Rather it is my experiences with the FrSky Taranis X-lite S.
Like I said earlier I’m coming from the tray style X9E radio to this “Game Boy” style controller. I can’t think of a greater span of ergonomic styles for a radio control transmitter than these two transmitters So it will take more than a few hours holding the TX before I can say I’ve given the new TX body style a fair evaluation.

Now I have been using FrSky equipment for about 6 years and can make some informed comments on the engineering (form, fit and function) of the product. This is where FrSky falls short. On the hardware side it appears that every time I first buy a FrSky product there is some flaw. I’m not talking about early entry into service issue, as I rarely buy the latest and greatest. With this radio it was the battery end caps damaging the battery holders. As this radio has been out on the market for about 2 years I’d have thought that this kind of issue would have been found and addressed long ago. These hardware flaws are generally just annoyances. And can usually be addressed by competent dealers or service centers. This is why it so important with FrSky hardware that one buy from a reputable vendor who knows the technical short coming of the product.

It has been my experience that sales outlets like Amazon, Banggood and FrSky’s Horus USA are not equipped to deal with customer found or customer generated problems. It is hobby retailers like Aloft Hobbies that first see these issues and have actually have the work arounds long before FrSky itself is even aware of the issue. So when I buy a FrSky product I expect that I will have to rely on customer service to bring the product to a level of functionality I expect. In the USA that means buying all my FrSky products from Aloft Hobbies. I’m not sure what FrSky, with HorusUSA, is doing as it pertains to supporting their dealer network. FrSky appears to be schizophrenic with its approach to the market place and its dealer network. This leaves me a bit apprehensive as to the future of FrSky. But as of this date FrSky is the market leader at this price point and level of product offerings. But in the last 2 or 3 years I’ve seen this eroding rather quickly. Not so much because the competition is getting better but rather FrSky is dropping the ball. This is something to keep in mind when making your next radio purchase.

I normally think that the life cycle of my radios is about 5 to 6 years. This is mainly as a result of new tech and regulatory changes. So with the purchase of the Taranis X-lite S I’m betting that FrSky, warts and all, will still be the radio of choice for the next 4 or 5 years.

With this FrSky Taranis X-lite S I’ll be moving away for the well proven but obsolete ACCST to the new FrSky ACCeSS radio frequency protocols. While some of the legacy FrSky receivers can have their firmware re-flashed to the ACCeSS protocol. I'll be using the new Archer R6 to use (explore) with this Taranis X-lite. I mention this as there is a lot of communication between the TX and RX as to the features one can use with ACCeSS, this goes beyond what one would normally think of as telemetry.
To support these features of ACCeSS the human interface program (OpenTX) has been updated. My radio came with OpenTX 2.3.09. I upgraded to OpenTx 2.3.10 without any difficulty. I can’t say where the credit goes (I suspect OpenTX) but this was so much easier than the update processes I had to use with the Taranis X9D plus.

Now what annoys me no end is the lack of documentation for most FrSky products (I’ll go into more detail about that in another thread). I’m of the opinion that all technical product should have a maintenance and operational manual provided by the OEM. This is where FrSky falls flat on its face! As products get more and more technical, at the user interface, the supporting documents gets less and less informative.

Luckily not all is lost. Aloft Hobbies has acknowledge this on their sales page. Aloft Hobbies has teamed up with Lothar Thole to offer us the lost FrSky manuals for OpenTX. While doing my due diligence prior to purchasing a new radio and bough a manual for the X9D+ to study OpenTX 2.3.xx and ACCeSS. Now much to my surprised after purchasing the X-lite S I found that there is are fact enough differences between the X9D+ and the X-lite S as to warrant purchase of a manual dedicated to the smaller radios.
I don’t know what non-english readers will do in place of the missing FrSky manual. But for us english reader’s this manual is a must have!

I’m at a lost as why radio OEMs can’t supply us with the a manual much like we got in the golden years of radio control!
They don’t need to be of the dead tree press, a searchable PDF would be nice. But in the mean time we have these great manuals.

OpenTX Manuals

alofthobbies.com

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Konrad]

After handling the X-Lite S for many hours and actually having a little over an hour of flight time on mine I can say that I've given the X-Lite S a fair shake. The conclusion I've come to is that it is not a style for everybody. There are two major issues I have. First is that the X-Lite S sides result in the gimbal axes are not in the same relationship to the hand as one would expect with a traditional TX body. This results in some cross talk between the two gimbal axes when wanting to only move one axis. This was mentioned earlier. Second one needs to actually hold the TX. This can make fine stick movements rather difficult. I had hoped that as a result of the X-Lite S low weight this wouldn't be an issue. (BTW this is why neck straps and tray radios are so much better for fine control inputs). FrSky does have a neck strap adaptor but this is a hokey afterthought device.

FrSky Stick Ends and Neck Strap Mount for Taranis X-Lite

Extend your X-Lite stick length with these longer stick ends. Lengthening the stick ends allows for a more precise control especially when using a hybrid pinch grip. This kit also comes with a very short stick end that is intended to improve control when thumbing. Both stick ends do offer much...

alofthobbies.com

I found that to maintain some kind of stick resolution that I needed a longer stick. For issue with placement of the gimbal and access to the top switches and slider I kept the left gimbal with the as shipped stick. But for the primary flight controls (elevator and aileron) I like the longer stick. This brought home another issue, that the X-Lite S did not fit back into the case with the longer sticks without putting a lot of pressure on the gimbal bearings. I needed to protect the gimbal with a taller protective cone.

On the subject of not fitting back into the case. The use of 18650 cells precludes the use of the protective insert. I had to discard it if I had any hope of using the carrying/protective case. Without the insert one needs to add a foam block to hold the X-Lite S in place to protect the top switches from possible impact damage.

On a lesser issue I have to say I've found the joy stick counter intuitive as to value changes with direction of motion. Not so much as to make field programing difficult, but just a bit annoying.

The big plus for this radio is the form factor in that it can fit in my back pack for those hikes to the cliff. Also that it is running the full power of OpenTX! On the subject of power the RF deck is a full feature one that had no range constraints as measured against any full size FrSky TX.

All the best,

Konrad

P.S.
As of this date the X-lite S will NOT talk to Archer (ACCeSS) receivers straight out of the box!
One needs to update the ISRM to v2.1.xx.
See attached video:

VIDEO: FrSky ACCESS - How to Update your Transmitter Firmware

Just bought a FrSky transmitter and it wont talk to your new Archer receiver? Here is your solution: and how to bind: We are working with FrSky to make this video outdated ASAP. We hope to offer the transmitters with the current firmware in the near future. If you are buying a transmitter...

forum.alofthobbies.com

 

[Wayne]

As another point of view, I fly with the X-lite S and am very pleased with it. The one short coming for me is trying to adjust the trims on the left hand stick while in flight is less than easy. Otherwise I am completely at home with the transmitter. I have many hours on mine now, and prefer it over a fully bodies radio now. When I fly someone elses plane it now feels odd to me as I have fully adjusted to the smaller sticks on the X-lite.

I could also point out that in Thermal and DLG worlds contests these radios have become pretty common and as I recall was used by the USA winner for DLG and I think he placed third at worlds? I simply suggest that 1 hour of flight time may not be enough for your brain to fully adjust to the smaller sticks after decades of flying the longer sticks, but you can get all of the precision you need to be a world class pilot as many people have done just that.