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Super mega long Twisty

thenated0g

thenated0g

Moderator
My attempt at making a super sized angelwings pug twisty.

Again, i am a total noob at this type of balsa building. For instance since designing this i have found some much better ways to do long spars. I was trying to do everything around the build size of my laser (12x20). @Wayne showed me the old style of doing long spars where you have a long strip of wood top and bottom which i will totally use next time. this kind of explains my multiple carbon spar setup in this build.


PXL_20220524_000710933.MP.jpgPXL_20220526_134751378.MP.jpgPXL_20220526_140141002.MP.jpgPXL_20220527_003242262.MP.jpgPXL_20220527_044557447.MP.jpgPXL_20220528_004208147.MP.jpgPXL_20220528_135123331.MP.jpgPXL_20220528_155402338.MP.jpgPXL_20220529_023858871.MP.jpgPXL_20220530_021037195.MP.jpg
 
There are a lot of ways to build a wing..

For my project I'm looking for super easy to build for quick prototyping and go straight to flight testing. Final models may well have a more complex build method with an eye towards durability and improved structure. Wing Helper makes this pretty easy to do. :)
 
Wayne said:
There are a lot of ways to build a wing..

For my project I'm looking for super easy to build for quick prototyping and go straight to flight testing. Final models may well have a more complex build method with an eye towards durability and improved structure. Wing Helper makes this pretty easy to do. :)
Click to expand...
Foam wings? Really the absolute fastest and easily variable method.

Think....Really nice looking "Dodger" Twisty with interchangeable wings:

1. Short lower aspect ratio semi symmetrical wings for aeros in higher winds. = "Artful Dodger"
2. Longer E193 wings for those calm evenings, whispering along the slope. = "Silky Dodger"

Buy kit 1, or buy kit 2 or buy a combo of 1 and 2.

Wings: Foam core, veeneer or brown paper covered, simple vertical spar - aluminium or brass tube wing connecter, steel or carbon - even glass rod wing joiner, (Can be used as ballast) one ply root rib, one balsa tip. Work to do: Sand and cover.
Stab/Fin: Sheet balsa front and rear rounded. Work to do: Sand and cover.
Fuselage: Simple square section, sheet sides with rounded corners. Formers/sides cut so that there are tabs/slots to make sure the construction is true. Work to do: Simple, fast assembly, sand and cover.
Twist mechanism: - super simple printed.

Versatility with the builder actually investing his time, and freedon as to colours and schemes etc.

Not exactly old skool but not far off. Would it work? Not really sure, but I'd like it.

Doc.
 
Wow, this looks good! And I envy you for this shop - I can only build on the kitchen table... :)

This is the first time I see the whole wing rotating, instead of just the aileron part. It must be extremely maneuverable!
 
Thanks, after having a few houses before this where I had to build on a coffee table and then clean up my mess each time I do feel pretty fortunate to have a shop where I can just leave it and it stays in that position until I come back.

These wing setups are called pitcheron.
 
I personally like Wingeron over pitcheron. Wingeron (1 servo) is just the roll control, pitcheron (2 servo) is roll and pitch control.

I know I am the odd duck out there, but I have always enjoyed Wingeron planes and almost always found pitcherons to be slow in pitch. (Unless the plane is tiny.)
 
Wayne said:
I personally like Wingeron over pitcheron. Wingeron (1 servo) is just the roll control, pitcheron (2 servo) is roll and pitch control.

I know I am the odd duck out there, but I have always enjoyed Wingeron planes and almost always found pitcherons to be slow in pitch. (Unless the plane is tiny.)
Click to expand...
I know its crazy but most wingeron or pitcheron designs by default are all-moving surfaces and this is because EVERY INCH OF YOUR DESIGN FIBRE tells you that entire twisting wings MUST WORK BETTER than ailerons, and the same with all-moving tailplanes Vs elevators. But its not true.

There are such complex things happening to the airflow over an all moving wing, that unless its moving extremely fast, its just a draggy mess. Yes a wingeron will cause the model to bank but probably not in a linear fashion and its the same with the stabiliser. But anyway we are not talking about Twisty Vs Conventional here. So back to wingeron/pitcheron:
  • If you make a wingeron design with a conventional elevator stabilizer then you will only have problems associated with all moving wings in roll.
  • If you make a wingeron design with an all moving stabilizer then you will have problems associated with all moving wings in roll and some minor ones from the stabiliser.
  • If you have a pitcheron design with non contributing stabs then there will be roll problems associated with all moving wings PLUS pitch problems from weakly responsive stabilisers.
So if you want to make a convential slope plane twisty then you can limit your problems:

Best: Twist wing with conventional elevator stabiliser.
Next best: Twist wing with all moving stabiliser.
Worst: Twist wing with the wings also controlling pitch.

Please note that this does not apply that well to featherlight, tumbling VTPR models that in any case dont fly in the conventional manner most of the time but in fact are in recovery from whatever the last manoever was. It also does not apply to an F22 but then we dont have a MACH capability.

Cheers,

Doc.
 
More twists of the tail:

I'm sure a lot of people have noticed the inverted V-Tail on the Predator drones, but wondered why the larger Reaper does not have this feature and instead sports an upright V-Tail (Actually its a tri-tail as both have a protruding downward-facing electronics fairing)

So why does the Predator have this seemingly suicidal stabiliser configuration?
The first thing to realize is that the odd-looking inverted V stabilisers are in fact all-moving "Ruddervator" controls and not just pitch controllers. On a UAV of the Predator's smaller size, there are in fact several advantages to this configuration:
  • A ruddervator placed beneath the CG, as on the Predator, will roll the plane toward the direction of yaw instead of away from it as a top-mounted rudder would, which allows for wide, stable smoothly coordinated turns using only the rudder. Ideal for taking a looksee.
  • As The Predator would not normally make violent manoevers, and in fact benefits from a stable flight path; this "rolling rudder/elevator" behavior is effectively all the aircraft needs in terms of roll and pitch control. In this case the ruddervator surfaces can be the only control surfaces, thus dramatically simplifying the control layout of the aircraft.
  • Theoretically, the lack of ailerons allows the smoother wings to have a higher aerodynamic performance due to zero control surface interference, and also allows the wings to be removed or folded easily - though the payload pylons with their control circuits do complicate this.
  • Larger drones like the Reaper with longer wings have a higher Moment Of Inertia (MOI) in the roll axis, more than the bottom mounted ruddervators could overcome by themselves, so these designs have ailerons (either wing-warping or hinged), which allows the V-tail to be upright for better control and also ground clearance on landing.
  • A crosswind on an inverted V-tail will cause the plane to yaw and pitch up rolling into the wind instead of pitching down and rolling away from it as it would with an upright V-tail. Given the high communications latency between the command in USA and the theatre in Afghanistan the control link is often temporarily lost, so this behaviour is an advantage as the aircraft usually has plenty of room above it to fly while the pilot reacts to the disturbance and hopefully restores control. Obviously the Predator can only fly downward for so long before it runs out of air.
  • The inverted tail does have the benefit of masking some of the plane's engine noise in flight from some forward angles. Not much, but every bit helps when you want to observe but not be observed.
  • Lastly, the inverted tail protects the more expensive propeller in the event of pilot error on manual takeoffs or landings.
Sorry to drone on...

Doc.
pEMSc.jpg
 
Last edited:
I weighed it this morning with all electronics except for battery and it came out at 1.7kg. CG is several inches back from where it needs to be so going heavy and assuming it will sit around 2.5kg, it comes out still a floater. Ill probably know final weight tomorrow but here is the numbers at 2.5kg.

1673990353081.png
1673990369404.png


Trainer Design

Model Aircraft Trainer Design. Useful info on how to design a trainer model airplane.
rcplanes.online
 
Awesome. I’m new around here and love your designs and builds! I know you said you have a Co2 laser but what ,if any, brand/model (non-co2) basic CNC laser would you recommend for someone who just wants to build models without breaking the bank?
 
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