Sticky In the "Radio" forums To address FrSky and OpenTX software.

[Konrad]

The separation of RF and TX programs to the customer base is looking like a chronic issue with the software used on the FrSky tx.

It is looking like this is a classic example of the firms not having responsibilities well defined between FrSKy and OpenTX as to documentation

The issue is in documenting to the customer, what is what. Ultimately this is FrSky’s responsibility. But both firms should have a blurb in their RTF instructions clearly defining what these two separate but often confused software are and who supports these two different software/firmware components in the radio.

FrSky needs to have a paragraph added to the instruction sheet making it clear that the RF firmware is ACCST (v1 or v2.xx.xx) or ACCESS and that this is totally separate from the TX operating systems FOS and OpenTX.

Another big help would be a chart (table) showing the compatibility of the ACCST and ACCESS version with the corresponding RX FW with hyper text links. YES, A full chart. As it is now we can’t see in one place how this XJT firmware progression works. It was a very bad human factors to direct someone to another page to see the legacy FW.

Have the engineers at FRSky had any training in human factors? Don’t answer that we painfully know the answer to that question!

Short of FrSky straightening up their documentation. Might Aloft’s forum be a tool to help the customer. Under the headings of “FrSky”, “OpenTX" and “FrOS” place a sticky clearly stating in large bold print that there are two types of software used in the TX. The FrSky firmware used in the RF section of the TX (XJT, iXJT). AKA, ACCST v1 and v2.1x and ACCESS (v0.0.0 for now). And that the TX and RX need to match. The other is the operation system (User interface) OpenTX or FrOS. Often accompanied with Companion for your home computer.

Make this a sticky, in those headings. Or better yet have this statement in the forum heading “Radios”. Yes, it seems to be this big an issue with the customers!

Another place might be the TX sales page.

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Wayne]

I had Sean make up this graphic for a posting I was going to do here.. Kind of a FrSky 101 thread. I still need to do that. I'll try to get that done when I finish with the tax data here. Anyhow, here is my favorite graphic for this topic:

Maybe it is not clear enough without supporting text.

 

[Konrad]

I like it!
But as I know the relationship I'm not a good judge as to the effectiveness of the graphic.

I hope it cuts down on the the number (rate) of customer posts and frustration over this concept.

 

[HENNY]

The separation of RF and TX programs to the customer base is looking like a chronic issue with the software used on the FrSky tx.

It is looking like this is a classic example of the firms not having responsibilities well defined between FrSKy and OpenTX as to documentation

The issue is in documenting to the customer, what is what. Ultimately this is FrSky’s responsibility. But both firms should have a blurb in their RTF instructions clearly defining what these two separate but often confused software are and who supports these two different software/firmware components in the radio.

FrSky needs to have a paragraph added to the instruction sheet making it clear that the RF firmware is ACCST (v1 or v2.xx.xx) or ACCESS and that this is totally separate from the TX operating systems FOS and OpenTX.

Another big help would be a chart (table) showing the compatibility of the ACCST and ACCESS version with the corresponding RX FW with hyper text links. YES, A full chart. As it is now we can’t see in one place how this XJT firmware progression works. It was a very bad human factors to direct someone to another page to see the legacy FW.

Have the engineers at FRSky had any training in human factors? Don’t answer that we painfully know the answer to that question!

Short of FrSky straightening up their documentation. Might Aloft’s forum be a tool to help the customer. Under the headings of “FrSky”, “OpenTX" and “FrOS” place a sticky clearly stating in large bold print that there are two types of software used in the TX. The FrSky firmware used in the RF section of the TX (XJT, iXJT). AKA, ACCST v1 and v2.1x and ACCESS (v0.0.0 for now). And that the TX and RX need to match. The other is the operation system (User interface) OpenTX or FrOS. Often accompanied with Companion for your home computer.

Make this a sticky, in those headings. Or better yet have this statement in the forum heading “Radios”. Yes, it seems to be this big an issue with the customers!

Another place might be the TX sales page.

All the best,
Konrad

The transmitter OS and RF control is separate in all RC radio control transmitters including FRsky, Spektrum, Futaba etc etc. I think it's more an issue with radios using Opentx and the ability to upgrade different parts of our radios. FRsky does have a note when downloading firmware " Note: Please update the firmware of all your radios, RF modules and receivers accordingly. " This firmware upgrade process is not available to nearly all other radio manufacturers especially the receivers upgrades which need to be returned to the manufacturers repair center. But more information would be a good thing.

 

[Konrad]

Exactly, and that is the issue many customers don't realize that there are multiple firmware/software on the radio.

Yes all radios have these two separate function. Most legacy brands don't allow the end user to change the RF, Firmware. The last upgrade of Spektrum from DSM2 to DSMX cost $70 plus shipping and a month or so of down time.

Multiplex was the first brand I had that allowed the operating system to be upgraded over the internet. Prior to that I had to get the eprom from the OEM to change the operating system (user interface), I'm thinking ACE MicoPro 8000.

You are correct in that FrSky is one of the first to allow the user to upgrade the RF firmware of both the RX and TX at no extra charge. This is really powerful stuff. And not adequately documented with the statement; "Note: Please update the firmware of all your radios, RF modules and receivers accordingly. " Again FrSky is shooting themselves in the foot with inadequate documentation resulting in a large frustrated customer base.

That note makes no mention that there is another set of firmware and to not confuse it with the operating/aircraft set up FW . Actually it is the one most customer interact with on a daily basis. We lovingly know it as OpenTX (a very few might be on FrOS). OpenTX is supplied and controlled by a different firm. Most firms are loath to document to the customer that they are dependent on outside resources. A classic example of this is drivers, if using a PC to drive a piece of machinery. Microsoft and Apple can break an otherwise perfectly running piece of machinery by changing the drivers or their location in the latest upgrade to their computer operating system. This is why I have so many legacy computers stacked up on my bench. Apple and Microsoft don't have the end user in mind when they set up their programing architecture.

You and I working in S.T.E.M. fields know of these pitfalls but many, many customer in the real non-tech world don't grasp this basic separation of functions.

I hope (and think) that graphic will clear up a lot of the confusion.

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Peter]

I would agree with Konrad. There is not enough documentation.
When I started my post on v2.3.9 I had little idea about what I was getting into, but I am stubborn (Taurus) and had to know answers. I have been a programmer and so know that there are firmwares and softwares, but many do not know the difference.

On upgrading to Companion 2.3.9 I noticed that I could not select D-16 in the Tx any more - suddenly there was this new thing "XJT" and I did not know what it was - hence my post. I thought I was doing the right thing by upgrading - little did I know I was digging myself into a hole.

I am now happy about OpenTx and Companion firmware upgrades, but, while I know that the RF sections of the Tx and Rx must match I am loath to change them. I still don't understand why Companion 2.3 placed XJT into my selection in place of D-16. I am back to D16 now and will remain that way until I understand the system better.

Perhaps a series by the folks at Aloft that walks through the details of OpenTX firmware upgrades (say from 1.9 to 2.0 and then from 2.2 to 2.3) with accompanying text on how to on the Tx and how to on the Rx.
And then do another walkthrough on the RF side (just deal with the internal RF to start with).

Obviously 2.3 is a major change from 2.2 Currently it is just creating confusion.
I know we can goto Painless360 and DIY, but it would be nice to have it all in one place and covered completely.

I believe this would go a long way to answering users questions and Aloft could just refer them to the detailed description of how to and why...

MeanwhileI do sort of understand why the developers might want to keep things a little magical!!

Peter

 

[Konrad]

Wow, I just did a look into a lot of the TX manuals. And much to my horror none (that I looked at) make mention of an ISRM. How is a customer to even know about this part of the radio if it isn't even mentioned in the manual. Why would FrSky then expect the customer to understand that it is even there and that it needs firmware?

 

[Peter]

There you go - ISRM - what is that? I might have built controls for water supply systems, but I am not a radio whiz.

Peter

 

[HENNY]

ISRM is simply the later version of the XJT or IXJT RF module. ISRM is the module required for the later series of RFsky radios running "ACCESS".
RFsky has had this info on their website for some time.

FrSky Advanced Communication Control Elevated Spread Spectrum - ACCESS protocol release! - FrSky - Lets you set the limits

www.frsky-rc.com

 

[Konrad]

Is that what that graphic is trying to convey? There is no text that I can find that states that.
Even a search on FrSky's site doesn't bring this up.

You searched for isrm - FrSky - Lets you set the limits

www.frsky-rc.com

For those of us that have the "decoder ring" it isn't too difficult to follow along. But somebody new to FrSky is bound to get lost with the haphazard documentation.

Is there even a glossary of terms?

 

[Kilrah]

If you just look at the specs of what you bought you'll see things like

Internal RF module: ISRM-P

 

[Konrad]

That's great. But is it in the glossary of terms (what glossary of terms) with a description that a layman could use.

Guy's this was just one term I picked at random. The manual is ripe with examples of stuff that is inadequately documented. Just follow the customer frustration trails. 80% of these issue can be traced to improper or incomplete documentation. The fact that there are so many misconception is proof of the inadequacy of FrSky documentation.

Saying something is a "Flux Capacitor" without a usable description it is rather worthless.

Running a search on FrSky's site doesn't bring up much on the RF module's firmware and how the customer is to interact with it. Nor is there much to separate this RF FW from that of the Operating System FW. The FW most customer interact with on a daily basis.

 

[HENNY]

Does your Spektrum radio tell what type of RF module you have in your radio or any of their other products and all the glossary terms you are asking for from FRsky. I think you are a bit over the top.

 

[Kilrah]

With Spektrum you don't need to know or care since you never have to fiddle with it... With FrSky you do.

 

[Konrad]

Does your Spektrum radio tell what type of RF module you have in your radio or any of their other products and all the glossary terms you are asking for from FRsky. I think you are a bit over the top.

Spektrum tells me what protocol I'm using, DSM2 and DSMX. And with the limited flexibility that is all I as the end user can control. (I think I may be able to control the refresh rate, I try not to fly Spektrum).

Now with great power comes great responsibility. FrSky is allowing the end user to control (change) much on the RF Module. They are responsible for providing usable documentation on how to use and maintain their product.

This brings up a question why have all these terms for the same basic thing. RF module= XJT, iXJT, ISRM, DFT, DJT on and on. I can't find anything is the FrSky documentation that describes these various modules and their different functions.

Over the top? This is a classic example of us engineers knowing what we are talking about. But the manual is to convey information to the customer. Just looking at the questions posted here on this forum and the question I see on the slope, FrSky's documentation is doing a very poor job of conveying the basic information the customer base needs to operate and maintain the radio at its basic level.

All the best,
Konrad

P.S.
I know Wayne is painfully aware of this issue and has gone to great length to address. I think it is about time (way over due) for FrSky to step up. I fear that if FrSky looses its customer base we will all be the worse for it. To FrSky, it is the customer that directly drives your sales, not your technology. Just look at Spektrum their tech is second tier to FrSky, but they hold market share at all the flying sites I visit. This is because the customer feels that they can use most of the technology they paid for.

 

[Wayne]

I'll agree with you. I think my tired old brain filled up about 3 years ago, and any new Frsky data I learn comes at the expense of older FrSky trivia. I used to know what pins to jump on the old V8 series receivers to bind to a D8 transmitter.. Not anymore. LOL (Signal pins on channels 1+2?)