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Soaring USA gift certificate (Strega purchase?)
Konrad
Very Strong User
Doc, It's all good. Yes, the incidence needed to be adjusted from the OEM setting.
In post 5 we were talking about raising the LE 1.5mm pivoting around the stab joiner pins (spar). This would look like close to a total change of 3mm measuring from the LE to the TE (full chord). At this setting my trims were carrying a lot of up trim with my CG placement of 112mm to 115mm.
Raising the stab half that amount for a little over 1.5mm measure from the LE to the TE (full chord) now has the elevator in profile with the rest of the stab. A low drag trim setting again keeping the CG at 112mm to 115mm. My Strega just starts to tuck (dive) as she reaches top speed.
This is how I like to fly my racers. Low trim drag. Now on the course I'm actually a bit slower than this tuck point as I'm making hard turns at both bases (turns slow down models, so make a few as possible to be fast).
I hate racers that pull the nose up as they go faster. That is why I hate being nose heavy! I'd rather be a bit tail heavy (tuck) than nose heavy (moon shoots).
By most standard I have very low control throw in my racing trim. I do this as I like a rather aft CG and on race day I'm usually so hyped up that I need low control throws to keep from crashing!. Now sport flying these throws are boring. So I have higher rate where I actually can snap on command.
All the best,
Konrad
In post 5 we were talking about raising the LE 1.5mm pivoting around the stab joiner pins (spar). This would look like close to a total change of 3mm measuring from the LE to the TE (full chord). At this setting my trims were carrying a lot of up trim with my CG placement of 112mm to 115mm.
Raising the stab half that amount for a little over 1.5mm measure from the LE to the TE (full chord) now has the elevator in profile with the rest of the stab. A low drag trim setting again keeping the CG at 112mm to 115mm. My Strega just starts to tuck (dive) as she reaches top speed.
This is how I like to fly my racers. Low trim drag. Now on the course I'm actually a bit slower than this tuck point as I'm making hard turns at both bases (turns slow down models, so make a few as possible to be fast).
I hate racers that pull the nose up as they go faster. That is why I hate being nose heavy! I'd rather be a bit tail heavy (tuck) than nose heavy (moon shoots).
By most standard I have very low control throw in my racing trim. I do this as I like a rather aft CG and on race day I'm usually so hyped up that I need low control throws to keep from crashing!. Now sport flying these throws are boring. So I have higher rate where I actually can snap on command.
All the best,
Konrad
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Doc J
Very Strong User
I think you are flying on the right track, Konrad.
The less you move those controls the faster your times will get. Too many people make constant adjustments to the line of flight - its far better to let the plane drift a little and correct in the turns than it is to slow it down 3 times per second by "controlling" it.
My fastest F3f time was 32.XX secs - with a modified Strega by the way; but thats a time which by today's standards is rubbish.
However I can say it was an "unassisted" flight - no special conditions or passing thermals - in fact it was a cold and rather blustery day.
I'm sure that knowing your model by constant practise in different conditions will get you well over half way up any pilot list.
I'm enjoying your forays into gaining ground in this competition.
Cheers,
Doc.
Konrad
Very Strong User
That is how I tried to fly, "smooth" in FAI-F3D Pylon. In my first slope race (60") I let the ship drift a bit even if the line I was fly wasn't exactly where I wanted it. This got me in trouble as I hit Base "B". It is considered poor form to scare the base workers! To say nothing about what it does for the longevity of the plane.
In FAI-F3D pylon racing we also try not to vary the height of course. But in FAI-F3F I see a lot of diviing through the bases. Is this done to try to maintain the speed through the turn? I also see a lot of climbing turns. Is this done to try to extract energy from the wind? I still don't have consitancy in my F3F flying to notice the difference flying my Strega.
I am seeing a lot of improvment with the proper aileron differential, a little coupled rudder, and late addition of flaps when making the base turns.
All the best,
Konrad
In FAI-F3D pylon racing we also try not to vary the height of course. But in FAI-F3F I see a lot of diviing through the bases. Is this done to try to maintain the speed through the turn? I also see a lot of climbing turns. Is this done to try to extract energy from the wind? I still don't have consitancy in my F3F flying to notice the difference flying my Strega.
I am seeing a lot of improvment with the proper aileron differential, a little coupled rudder, and late addition of flaps when making the base turns.
All the best,
Konrad
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purview
Very Strong User
while flying legs with 3-4sec each you probably have about 0.4 to 0.7sec (some are faster) to turn and adjust the next line "where your mind can rest and calm down until layoff ends
newer f3f techniques require a controlled flight path @ eight shaped looking" that can be tightly compressed into the pressurezone. if you are able to get the flyin in the pressure zone near the lip as long as possible then you should not disturb the inital setting after a "correct" turn. Some people do not need to fly as near as possible to the slope and also get fast times. Some people say some slopes have s**t lips and plane eating vegetation and also have done fast times...
Konrad, I think the "all depending" clockwork must set up nicely that it works for you. Beeing patient till clearance
Konrad
Very Strong User
It's all about energy management.
Much of the discussion here in this thread has been on the removal of improperly added trim drag by the OEM. That is resetting the stab incidence. It is also known that moving the control surface not only effect the lift but also induces drag.
You might notice that Doc. has been telling me to reduce drag from the ill advised stab incidence. He is also counseling me to let the ship "drift a little" rather than add drag in the form of a control correction. That drift a little is a clue that the lift or pressure zone is a band not a narrow hard line that one needs to stay on top of.
Yes, each slope has its unique characteristics that the pilot must learn and adapt in order to gain the most from the local conditions.
Now unlike F3D Pylon our F3F ships do not carry their power source, but must extract the energy from the lift (air) and gravity. So the question is how does one fly with as low a drag profile as possible and at the same time extract the energy from the pressure zone while flying the shortest course. In F3D Pylon changing altitude costs one valuable speed. I'm not sure this applies to F3F, as F3F really is about how fast we dive through the lifting air mass.
All the best,
Konrad
Much of the discussion here in this thread has been on the removal of improperly added trim drag by the OEM. That is resetting the stab incidence. It is also known that moving the control surface not only effect the lift but also induces drag.
You might notice that Doc. has been telling me to reduce drag from the ill advised stab incidence. He is also counseling me to let the ship "drift a little" rather than add drag in the form of a control correction. That drift a little is a clue that the lift or pressure zone is a band not a narrow hard line that one needs to stay on top of.
Yes, each slope has its unique characteristics that the pilot must learn and adapt in order to gain the most from the local conditions.
Now unlike F3D Pylon our F3F ships do not carry their power source, but must extract the energy from the lift (air) and gravity. So the question is how does one fly with as low a drag profile as possible and at the same time extract the energy from the pressure zone while flying the shortest course. In F3D Pylon changing altitude costs one valuable speed. I'm not sure this applies to F3F, as F3F really is about how fast we dive through the lifting air mass.
All the best,
Konrad
Konrad
Very Strong User
Coming close to fixing all the issues with the second Strega (white and red one). I've lengthened the arm by 1mm and brought the clevis pin much closer to the hinge line. I still have a bit of mechanical differential as the arm is bound to the top skin at 90°. This slated the arm aft. Not a perfect set up but far better than the RCRCM set up. As differential is usually easy to fix with modern radios it wasn't my focus when I first started to replace these arms. The main concern was that there was no torque lever for the arm to work with to move the control surface.
All the best,
Konrad
P.S.
The OEM control arms are 14mm long from the control hinge to the center of the clevis pin bore. With my control horns I added about 1.5mm of length. My Red and White Strega now has 15.5mm long control horns. I hope this allows me to use more of my servo's resolution.
All the best,
Konrad
P.S.
The OEM control arms are 14mm long from the control hinge to the center of the clevis pin bore. With my control horns I added about 1.5mm of length. My Red and White Strega now has 15.5mm long control horns. I hope this allows me to use more of my servo's resolution.
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Konrad
Very Strong User
Those of you following along might have rightfully come to the conclusion that I think the the RCRCM Strega is the Devil reincarnate. Well, this is true of the yellow and black one. This Sunday I maidened the white and red one. And much to my surprise the white and red one flies much better. I had thought I had set them both up the same. While I’m happy that the “new” white and red Strega flies noticeably better, I’m know puzzled as to why. I’ll now have to go over the install (centering and control motion not just the end points [max throw]). I have changed the V-tail control horn and am using IDS for the wing servos. But I really don’t think these difference can explain the dramatic feel in flight characteristics.
Yes, both have the reset V-tail incidence.
Now please don’t take this as an endorsement of the RCRCM Strega. Both of these RCRCM Strega had such structural issues as to make them dangerous.
All the best,
Konrad
Yes, both have the reset V-tail incidence.
Now please don’t take this as an endorsement of the RCRCM Strega. Both of these RCRCM Strega had such structural issues as to make them dangerous.
All the best,
Konrad
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Konrad
Very Strong User
Like I said I maidened the White and Red Strega last Sunday. Here are what the tail trim looks like. I'm actually very happy with the tail. I cut down the stab incidence to about half of what I originally had in the Yellow and Black Strega (both are now about the same). I maidened at a CG of 105mm and as you can barely see that I'm barely carrying up trim. I like neutral or up as the camber helps a bit with the tail forces. So I'm real close to perfect. So if anybody had any doubts Doc is correct that the tail incidence needs to be changed. (At the pins the change is a bit less than 1mm for a CG of 110mm).
Now there are at least two schools of thought about auto plug in wing harnesses. I've liked them! Some think that in a mid air they may be a liability. Well I can now say that free harnesses are a pain. I tend to pinch the wires as I push on the wings. I see a lot of wire flex that gives me great concern with broken wires from work hardening.
So while I gave the free harness a try I feel the 100% chance that the wires will be flexed every time verses to 1000:1 chance of a mid air I'm going with the auto connect wiring harness.
All the best,
Konrad
Now there are at least two schools of thought about auto plug in wing harnesses. I've liked them! Some think that in a mid air they may be a liability. Well I can now say that free harnesses are a pain. I tend to pinch the wires as I push on the wings. I see a lot of wire flex that gives me great concern with broken wires from work hardening.
So while I gave the free harness a try I feel the 100% chance that the wires will be flexed every time verses to 1000:1 chance of a mid air I'm going with the auto connect wiring harness.
All the best,
Konrad
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Konrad
Very Strong User
That helps. What I'm showing is an exaggeration. But with prebuilt harnesses it is a pain to extend the strain relief to cover the length I need to get my fingers into the gap to make the connection. The hot glue potting is a good idea. I use these molds for that.
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Konrad
Very Strong User
Wow, even the paint used by RCRCM is of a poor quality. I was doing some fine tuning on the model (some of you might have noticed the grinder). That's when I notice the lifted paint on the wings.
Are these painted in the mold?
It also looks like the paint is not an epoxy definitely not a catalyzed paint. So watch your solvents against the paint on any RCRCM product when performing any clean up.
Are these painted in the mold?
It also looks like the paint is not an epoxy definitely not a catalyzed paint. So watch your solvents against the paint on any RCRCM product when performing any clean up.
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Doc J
Very Strong User
Konrad - this is not a paint problem - its a timing problem. Unless the layups are done very soon after the moulds are painted, then there is no chemical bond no matter what kind of paint is used.
If a mould set is painted and not laid up within about 12 hours, then the paint is likely to come off. The better the paint is, the worse the problem gets as good paint by its very nature has a hard impervious surface that is resistant to being "stuck" to.
RCRCM are quite capable of waiting weeks to lay up a painted mould set as they have little or no materials science background.
This is why instead of heating their workshops in the winter, they heat the epoxy instead.
Been there, seen it, and I kid you not its true.
Doc.
Konrad
Very Strong User
WIth the way I build few thing actual are useable in their stock form. A classic example is the servo cover. I seem to never place the servo or the servo are where I can take advantage of premade covers. Or I don’t like the vacuumed formed ones. I’m forced to make my own from some balsa block of clay shapes. I usually have some left over epoxy mix up and find that this is often enough to make a servo cover.
I basically just shape the block on the glass, wax the plug to try to help is come out of the part. I like to use a lot, 5 layer or so 0.5oz glass. These are very rough parts but to my mind far better than tape covers. With a bit of primer and paint they can look OK.
I basically just shape the block on the glass, wax the plug to try to help is come out of the part. I like to use a lot, 5 layer or so 0.5oz glass. These are very rough parts but to my mind far better than tape covers. With a bit of primer and paint they can look OK.
Konrad
Very Strong User
Ok, I sport flew (now that’s a novel idea) the white & red Strega this afternoon. The second maiden was every bit as good as the first maiden. I had changed to a shorter flap servo arm to gain more servo resolution. I also changed the stab incidence to correct a bit of rudder trim.
I still can't really find why the white & red Strega flies so much better than the yellow & black Strega. Both are at the same CG (well as best as I can measure them with in 1mm. The white & red Strega does show to be ever so slightly nose heavy by the dive test. Still very close to neutral.
I did notice that the inside cavity of the wings do appear to be different. That is the yellow & black Strega appears to have more space between the inner skins at the servo openings. The inner skins are 1mm further apart. This did allow me to bury the aileron servo deeper in the wing allowing a simple flat servo cover. The white & red Strega has the aft end of the servo just sticking up 1mm necessitating a custom made servo cover.
So assuming that the molds are the same with in 0.05mm this means that the skins are of different thicknesses. I think the yellow & black Strega may have 1.0mm balsa skins. and the white & red Strega may have 1.5mm balsa shins. The white & red Strega does feel to have stiffer wings.
I still can't really find why the white & red Strega flies so much better than the yellow & black Strega. Both are at the same CG (well as best as I can measure them with in 1mm. The white & red Strega does show to be ever so slightly nose heavy by the dive test. Still very close to neutral.
I did notice that the inside cavity of the wings do appear to be different. That is the yellow & black Strega appears to have more space between the inner skins at the servo openings. The inner skins are 1mm further apart. This did allow me to bury the aileron servo deeper in the wing allowing a simple flat servo cover. The white & red Strega has the aft end of the servo just sticking up 1mm necessitating a custom made servo cover.
So assuming that the molds are the same with in 0.05mm this means that the skins are of different thicknesses. I think the yellow & black Strega may have 1.0mm balsa skins. and the white & red Strega may have 1.5mm balsa shins. The white & red Strega does feel to have stiffer wings.
Konrad
Very Strong User
I’m amused that there are forum members that know my flight history better than I.
I had torn off my flap on my Redshift forcing me to fall back to my back up, which was my white and red Strega. I was warned that this was going to be the first time I had raced her. I was surprised that anybody was following my flight schedule. I was also thankful for the warning as I’m sure I would have flown the Strega like she was an old friend and likely would have gotten into trouble. Truth be told the white and red Strega flew just fine. I also had a full complement of ballast (1Kg) and got my fast time for the day with this ship.
All the best,
Konrad
I had torn off my flap on my Redshift forcing me to fall back to my back up, which was my white and red Strega. I was warned that this was going to be the first time I had raced her. I was surprised that anybody was following my flight schedule. I was also thankful for the warning as I’m sure I would have flown the Strega like she was an old friend and likely would have gotten into trouble. Truth be told the white and red Strega flew just fine. I also had a full complement of ballast (1Kg) and got my fast time for the day with this ship.
All the best,
Konrad
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Doc J
Very Strong User
There was an issue one time Konrad with bendy fuselages flexing in flight.
Not sure if that might have been a culprit?
Doc.
Konrad
Very Strong User
With all the repairs to both fuselages with the added carbon across the part line they both feel torsionally stiff. The yellow and black one actually feels stiffer (mind games) as it actually has a few carbon bandages. I'm twisting with the wing joiner and V-tails.
