Redshift; Used Purchase

[Konrad]

The flippers are now ready for paint. Ok, primer.
I have to say that when I took on this project I didn't think it would come out as well. Nor did I think it would take as much work as it did. I'm now very happy with the airframe. All that is left is the actual test flying and follow up adjustments. It normally takes me about 10 flight to get a model reasonably dialed in.

Now I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but I'd like to see if I can get my hands on the glass prototype and see if I can get the birds with snakes to work any better. What I'd like to try to do is come up with a "simple fix" to the stock V-tail control issues many have reported (servo resolution and double centering).

 

[Doc J]

I really want to throw this thing off a cliff!

Got the wiring harness in. I even got the flaps to work well, even with the 30mm x 35mm servos.

I owe you an apology for the serpentine pushrod comment awhile back. I now understand why you did it.

So it's now up to programing the radio, and arranging a visa from SWMBO. Maybe this weekend!

I think with this kind of feed back you will have a world class ship here. I base this on what I saw of the Stormbird.

Its a nice fast model, Konrad - good luck with the maiden.

Doc.

 

[purview]

I may even have to go up to 120% servo motion. I’m happy with this, as I think it is far better than 25% or 20% most guys are using on their Redshifts. In case anybody forgot the surface arms are 11mm long and the servo arms are 4.5mm long.

Dear Konrad, now I've checked the legacy of your thoughts by using the full servo motion and not to cut off travel within the software solution of my Tx's system.
I needed 3planes to solve this issue. Now I am sure that this is one cause to fix within my future security Tx l oop's of servo travel in motion.
I still have a build Orden from rtg with the same travel issues. All dialed in the Tx the same way:
too much servo travel, too much elevator deflection and solved with the transmitter programming
this can be avoided by following your advice and build section issues

 

[Konrad]

You got it!
On a philosophical point I like to try to get my set up as close as possible mechanically. I then use software to fine tune the set up.

 

[purview]

Thought of avoiding mistakes by setting a mechanical limit that can't be overdriven with software

To clear out one more thing that may happen by bad control output

 

[Konrad]

She flies!

Still need to do a lot of work. Like install the Zepsus switch, hold the antennas down, train the wire harnesses. Oh, and the big one, outfit the ballast, cut some of the bars to allow adjustment.
Despite the needed work the Redshift had an uneventful maiden.

The main issue I had was that as this was a used purchase there was nose weight already added to the nose. This resulted in what I measured as a CG of 93mm. The Redshift at this weight/CG did act a bit nose heavy. (This is why I didn’t install the switch, I was trying to save on nose weight). I used a borrowed 103 gram 2 cell lipo from my Yellow and Black Strega. I’m thinking I might have to drill out some of the lead in the nose or find a lighter 2 cell lipo to move the CG aft of 95mm closer to 100mm.

Ok, with the excuses out of the way. I can say that the Redshift without ballast is noticeably faster than the White and Red Strega without ballast. This should be no surprise to anyone, as Strega has more wing area and less weight (she is glass and built to fail).

I think my ailerons are sporting 14mm up (manual states 18mm). At these setting I have way more than enough aileron authority for any race condition and most sport conditions. I may rework the linkage to get more up as I have way too much down (I need an IDS push rod that is about 1mm shorter). Elevator felt fine at 4.5mm and the Redshift did respond to rudder. This may change as I move the CG aft. I need to remember that this Redshift is being set up as my primary racer and not my day to day sport ship.

At this stage I can now say I’m again looking for my next F3F ship build. As I think I’ve sorted out the few issues with the Redshift I’m thinking I might need another one. While I do tend to buy two of any one kind of competition ship. (The key to placing well, is knowing your model and two of the same thing helps). I’m thinking I may want to experience some other designs at this stage of my F3F development.

BTW; In using Mike Shellim’s OpenTX templet

 

[Doc J]

She flies!

Still need to do a lot of work. Like install the Zepsus switch, hold the antennas down, train the wire harnesses. Oh, and the big one, outfit the ballast, cut some of the bars to allow adjustment.
Despite the needed work the Redshift had an uneventful maiden.

The main issue I had was that as this was a used purchase there was nose weight already added to the nose. This resulted in what I measured as a CG of 93mm. The Redshift at this weight/CG did act a bit nose heavy. (This is why I didn’t install the switch, I was trying to save on nose weight). I used a borrowed 103 gram 2 cell lipo from my Yellow and Black Strega. I’m thinking I might have to drill out some of the lead in the nose or find a lighter 2 cell lipo to move the CG aft of 95mm closer to 100mm.

Ok, with the excuses out of the way. I can say that the Redshift without ballast is noticeably faster than the White and Red Strega without ballast. This should be no surprise to anyone, as Strega has more wing area and less weight (she is glass and built to fail).

I think my ailerons are sporting 14mm up (manual states 18mm). At these setting I have way more than enough aileron authority for any race condition and most sport conditions. I may rework the linkage to get more up as I have way too mush down (I need an IDS push rod that is about 1mm shorter). Elevator felt fine at 4.5mm and the Redshift did respond to rudder. This may change as I move the CG aft. I need to remember that this Redshift is being set up as my primary racer and not my day to day sport ship.

At this stage I can now say I’m again looking for my next F3F ship build. As I think I’ve sorted out the few issues with the Redshift I’m thinking I might need another one. While I do tend to buy two of any one kind of competition ship. (The key to placing well, is knowing your model and two of the same thing helps). I’m thinking I may want to experience some other designs at this stage of my F3F development.

BTW; In using Mike Shellim’s OpenTX templet

Good to hear it went OK Konrad - Sorry about the overkill control settings - Like the CG it has to be conservative to start.

The new model will not be ready for some months unfortunately, anyway I'd have to talk to Wayne, but I do have a couple of untouched ones the same as you have now

Cheers,

Doc.

 

[Konrad]

Doc.
Nothing to apologize for. It is understood that in racing trim all racers have the control surfaces dialed way down, when looked at against sport flying set ups.

The only control in my Redshift that is way too much is the aileron down motion. And this is a result of my control set up geometry.
(My custom made IDS push rod needs to be 1mm shorter) I was able to control this in the software. But I still can't get to the 18mm in your set up manual. I may or may not change my IDS push rod.

Now I'd like to see manuals state where the prototype neutral CG was (tuck point in the dive test). This is to help with the placement of the ballast tube. (This is a problem not unique to Aeroic). I'd then like to see a maiden CG point called out.



I'm sorry to say that while there are a lot of Aeroic models on the slopes locally. There is a marketing issue, in that the locals don't want to buy old stock. The quality issue is often mentioned. You might need to have a fire sale on the products from the old manufacture. Or keep the ones you have as parts support for the V1s out there.

Now I will say there is a bit of pent up demand for some of your new offering with your new OEM.

Now about F3F ships, I haven't seen any new ones on the slope other than mine and one Matrix. All the talk has been of the Freestylers so I don't know if there is much of a market for a new F3F ship. I think you are correct in focusing on the other segments of the slope glider market.

I will say that I think there is a market for the Redshift. At a grand less than the Freestylers she is a heck of a value if the one major design issue is addressed in the new version. The Redshift is so much better than the RCRCM Strega and their other offering that again the $500 premium over the RCRCM Strega is well worth it.


With only 2 landing on my Redshift and at my level of racing* I can't say how the Redshift stacks up against the Freestyler (V or VI). With any luck I should have my Redshift dialed in enough to have her out for the July 12th race.



* I'm not an "A" list pilot, heck I'm not a "Z" list pilot.

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Konrad]

That might have been a close call! I see that I left the KST DS125 servo on the flaps. I was using a 2 cell Lipo (8.4v) for my maiden flights. I might need to drop down to a 5 cell 6V battery. Or step up to a pair of X10 servos. But I see they are out of stock at Aloft.

It is odd that the 5 cell NiMH battery is heavier that my 2 cell lipo (1300 mAh vs 3500 mAh). Just what I don't need, more nose weight!

 

[Doc J]

You lead a charmed Life, Konrad.

Doc.

 

[Konrad]

That or I have a lot of voltage drop through the wiring harness

I'll need to see about finding some KST X10 servos. My stash of servos only had the mini X10. The installed servo tray is not set up for the 30mm x 30mm foot print servo.

 

[Wayne]

Yeah, KST is currently being a pain. Will see what the future brings. The ball is in their court.

 

[Konrad]

Weren't you one of the early distibutors of the KST brand in the USA? Is this a supply issue or a marketing/distibution issue?

 

[Wayne]

Yes, one of the first, for sure the first glider shop. It is a distribution issue. They want me to buy from our friend Owen, you know, the guy that started up Jumper and RadioSuckers. For some reason I am not willing to do that. Hello BlueBird!

 

[Konrad]

Yikes! How did KST wind up in bed with that guy?

I've been using Blue Bird servos for about 20 years. Back in the day I used Blue Bird analog sub micro servos in place of some of the GWS stuff. I had OK results with the analog servo, about par with the GWS servos in the same class. When I moved to digital servos I've had no issues with Blue Bird or the rebranded Hobby King servos. I used these in my Ef-1 racers for 10 years and never a failure.

I will say that the Taiwan Blue Bird is heads and shoulders above the Red Chinese Blue Arrow brand.

I have to admit that the KST has been a very reliable and robust brand for me. But it looks like I now have a reason other than political to dump KST in favor of the Taiwan Blue Bird. I'm always looking for reasons to leave mainland China products behind.

All the best,
Konrad

PS
What does the Blue Bird output spline look like?

 

[Konrad]

Well, that made the RX power decision easier. I'll be going with 5 cell for the short term.

 

[Wayne]

I had similar experience with BlueBird long ago. I was using them as very cheap servos for park fliers, etc. Never had an issue, but just not a fan of transparent blue servos. I have only stocked their higher end units at this time. I may stock some of the cheaper servos in the future if there is some demand. I tend to avoid most analog servos these days, Hitec being the main exception.

 

[Konrad]

Yep, it was the blue case servos of 20 years ago. Much like the Cirrus brand.

You have a lot of good mid priced servo brands like Corona and Power HD. I see no need for Aloft to carry another entry level servo. I'd like to see the resources spent on keeping the high end stuff in stock.

Yep I too see no need in the 21st century to stock/have analog servos. If one has a power supply issue fix the power supply, Don't go down to using analog servos because one is still using a 2 amp linear BEC off of a 3 cell lipo!

 

[purview]

slightly off-top I cured the damn landing approach from 14.June
We will see if it holds, fuse ballast tube is now out of order

@Konrad flying stuff from slot, wrecker or the coast??

 

[Konrad]

Here I have all the wires and antenna in place. What bothers me is that the few installation I’ve seen seem to have the antennas at just about any other angle other than 90° to each other. With the fade issues on 2.4 gHz this 90° should be thought of as critical. Here I have one antenna pointed forward and the second antenna pointed vertical at 90°. Both antennas stay under (inside) the slip on nose cone. Now I’m thinking of placing the vertical antenna a bit more out board to get in front (to the side) of the ballast tube and servo.

You might have noticed that I’m now using a 5 cell RX battery. While this is a few grams heavier than the 2 cell lipo battery, The center of gravity for the NiMh battery is further aft. This should help a bit with the nose heavy condition I had on the maiden.

All the best,
Konrad