New Single Stick Project

[Wayne]

As some of you know we have dabbled with making a Single Stick radio from FrSky guts in the past. Here is a prototype from many years ago using the Taranis Plus as the brains:

Roger, the brains behind that earlier project has produced a few of these for customers, and then when 3D printing came along he was able to switch over to plastic cases as the CNC alloy cases were very expensive.

Roger and I have been chatting about a production version of a single stick and Roger has made some real progress. This one is based on the FrSky X10S Express, so you will get a nice color screen and you can run OpenTX, Er9X or Ethos on it. The case will use a mix of 3D printed parts (white in photos below) and CNC cut plates (in black) for a nice look with a good price. Here are a few photos of the prototype:

The plates should be available in carbon fiber, or anodized aluminum.

This is just a first prototype, it is very much a project at this point, but Roger is making great progress.

The end result should be the most powerful single stick radio ever produced. Think we will have a pretty trick new third axis stick end using a hall effect sensor if all goes to plan.

What do you think?

 

[Hoqiam]

Wayne,

I think you would have a winner!!! How soon Can I get one?

Tom

 

[billgstra]

is this projet still active?

 

[Wayne]

It is. We have been making a bit of progress on things while waiting for FrSky to make up some new hardware. As of last night I have word that they have the new hardware ready.

 

[Wayne]

Wanted to share a quick update on this project. We have been doing a lot of small changes to get things lined up and working correctly. This is the current state of the project. Lots of small changes to get the fit just right.

The trims around the throttle gimbal will be altered and we are waiting for some sample parts to be delivered for the throttle sliders. Throttle trim will probably relocate to near the throttle. The mainboard will now be moved down 5mm or so, and the RF board recessed a few mm, you get the idea. A 1mm thick accent plate will go over the entire face of the radio. Carbon fiber or anodized aluminum are probably final options. Same will all 8 sides and the back of the radio.

Yep, no third axis is shown on this radio... Yet. Waiting on those too.

 

[gnichola]

Wayne, are you using the FrSky gimbal? https://www.frsky-rc.com/product/3-axis-gimbal-extender/

 

[Wayne]

FrSky has a newer version. Waiting for it to arrive. It is now a hall effect sensor instead of a pot.

 

[Hank]

Is this version planned for production by FrSky or will it be a limited production run independently?
For me, just my preference, I would like to have all 4 trim tabs on the left side so I can use my left thumb. That way I can keep my right hand on the stick the whole time. I guess that also applies to the toggle switches and sliders, and knobs.
I can see this layout helping my flying a lot.

 

[HOQUIAM]

Hey Hank,
Sorry, but I do not get what you are suggesting on the Aux. controls locations. I have been Flying Single Stick since the early 1950s
and I cradle the TX in my left arm, holding the TX such that my Left Forfinger moves the Throttle Lever, located on the Right side, and
the Throttle Trim lever is just below it about 0.5" away. I always like to have a "Top Rudder" control located on the top right corner of
the TX also which I move with my Left Thumb. This operates in parallel with the 3rd Axis control on the Stick. This is a big help when
the Stick is in a position where small rudder inputs are not easily done.
I find that if the Aircraft is properly trimmed out, moving all of the other controls with my Right Hand has never been a problem.
While conducting my Patent research on flying an airplane in Deep Stall (3 D) in the early 1970s, I had as many as a dozen other switches
and trims located on the Front face of the TX and lower down on the Right Side panel.

Tom

 

[Wayne]

We have not finalized the trim locations, but can tell you that the throttle trim will be moving, probably next to the throttle. The throttle and throttle trim will require us to make custom boards as stock FrSky parts will not fit. For the throttle we are currently testing a linear slider, similar to what FrSky uses in the X20, X12 and X9E radios but without center detents. Again a custom board will need to be made up for these.

Additional channels and switches are not at all final. We are still working on the larger issues with the project. At this time we have no plans to support the rear module bay, we will simply seal it off.

We are working with Frsky, they will supply the X10S radio parts that will make up the electronics of the radio. We will probably sell this as a kit to keep the prices down. Just a matter screwing things together and plugging things in. We may offer a build service as an option. For now we are working on getting everything to fit and working correctly.

Should we see a lot of demand, we will be talking with Frsky to take this project to mass production. I do not think a single stick will be popular enough to meet a lone dedicated design, I think it will always need to borrow boards from an existing FrSky radio. The X10S makes good sense for this project as it can run OpenTX, ErskyTX and Ethos.

 

[JF1978]

Sounds like a great approach (assembly kit with shop assembly option). That is basically how Ace R/C did it for years (as opposed to Heathkit's kit build only approach). The difference of using the electronics from a mass-produced version should keep the cost down and the quality/consistency better..
Thanks for your efforts and keeping folks posted. ?
John

 

[Wayne]

We are nearly done with this project!!

Here are a couple of pictures as she sits today.

Hopefully we get the third axis stick ends from Frsky and we will be sending out the panels for test cutting. Rafael converted the throttle into a hall effect sensor too! Pretty cool.

We should be able to start offering these pretty soon.

 

[RafaelAvila]

We are getting close... almost done with it. Was a lot of work to this point and I'm very happy with the final result.

 

[Raymond Gaskins]

we getting close... almost done with it. was a lot of work been done. I'm very happy with the final result

I want one

 

[Konrad]

I saw this in person. It is looking rather good.

I flew a single stick MicroPro 8000 3 decades ago. Based on that experience I’d like to point out some ergonomic points. First is that I used my middle finger for throttle. I liked the throttle pot at the same distance from the bottom of the TX as center position of the primary control stick.

I like to hold the rudder knob by the upper portion of the knob.

Also I’ve had issues with the case corner biting into my forearm.

Now the reason I don’t fly a single stick is because of the poor throttle resolution from the finger throttle.

Now as odd as it sounds I found the vertical trim of the elevator on the side plate rather natural.

 

[Wayne]

Really appreciated the feedback. All good points and we are looking into making the adjustments.

In the meantime, here are some pics with the correct stick end.

And the rear data ports:

 

[Konrad]

Now that I dug out my Single Stick I've been fondling it for a while getting a feel for the ergonomics. I've come to learn that I really like the Elevator trim on the side plate and the Aileron trim on the top plate. This allows me to use my left hand to trim (thumb for the aileron and the ring finger for the elevator). This is much like how we use the left hand with "cross trims" in mode II dual stick set ups. This should allow trimming without needing to remove your hand from the stick. (Ok, rudder trim is still a right hand function). With digital trims this should be be even smoother and more accurate than the analog trims of the older Single Sticks TXs.

I assume that the trim and axis Hall effect sensors can be mechanically separated to allow then to be properly placed for Single Stick operation. If so this should allow the trim level just to the left (elevator?) of the gimbal to be moved to the side plate. This might allow the gimbal itself to be moved 5mm to 10mm away from the right edge of the TX body.

Do you have an active Single Stick user on your team? While I've used a Single Stick it has been close to 40 years since I've last used one. So,I don't qualify as a good beta tester for ergonomics.

 

[Hoqiam]

I am still using a single stick. Between Aloft and I, we modified my 10X Express to do it!

Works Great.

Tom

 

[Konrad]

A modified TX to place the rudder on the top of the stick is one level of modification. I also have pots and switches on the top of sticks on many of my dual stick radios.

But to my way of thinking a "Single Stick" radio is much more than the three primary flight controls on one gimbal assembly.

You can see with the Ace Single Stick we can reach 2 of the 3 primary flight trims and the dual rates with the left hand.

Other than throttle resolution and bruised forearm a well thought out Single Stick has some advantages. Unfortunately these two issue have never been fully addressed and is why the Single Stick is basically just a note in the history of RC aircraft.

Now should one have some kind of disability, (paralysis or loss of a hand) the three axis gimbal does allow one to use the 3 primary flight controls with one hand.

Tom can you post a photo of your set up, showing trim positions and throttle?

 

[jseyfert3]

Just to clarify, with the single stick setup you can twist the stick for rudder like you would on a full size computer joystick? That would definitely be intriguing. I’ve always thought on the back burner about hooking a computer joystick up to a transmitter and flying that way, but that would require sitting at a table of sorts for the joystick. I never considered a setup like this.