Mini Q

[Konrad]

I consider it an odd size since NONE of my benchstock rods worked with the clevices. I consider it an odd size if both local hobby shops had nothing to fit them. I consider it an odd size if none of my dozens of spare clevices worked with the rods.

That is why I referenced M.P. Jet, as far too many USA distribution outlets don't carry the standard replacement parts for fitting out modern 21st century models (read; standard metric parts).

All the best,
Konrad

BTW; Most LHS should be able to supply standard metric hardware. For example Du-Bro sells 2mm threaded push rods P/N 693.
It is up to us, "the market", to ask for proper model fitting. Otherwise the LHS has no idea as to what is needed in the market place and they will keep supplying us as they did in the 50's.

 

[Wayne]

I have a 15 minute video of the Mini Q doing DS laps at Bird Springs. Should I post it up? No speed readings, but he is going pretty well. I'll see if if Youtube can deal with it..

 

[gregg]

I maidened my miniQ today, unfortunately it did not go so well. I built it as a glider only, and I needed 60 gm of lead in the nose cone to get a cg 20 mm behind the leading edge at the fuselage. All up weight was 360 gm. We waited for a day with a 10-15 kt wind, south to SE. At the slope (Sydney, Australia) it seemed the wind was S to SSW (as everyone agrees if conditions are not great, don't do the maiden).

Several expert flyers from the club were on hand to observe. I thought I would have 2mm reflex up (meaning the elevon was up 2mm from the wing trailing edge) for the first launch, but advice was its better to have it in line with the TE. The model dived straight to the ground after launch on the grassy slope. I tried putting in 1mm, and then 2mm of reflex, but the same thing happened. A launch over the cliff edge led to the same thing, and while the model was easily retrieved a loose servo ended the session with the miniQ; there was no significant damage. Flying with other models, the lift was weak and only lightly loaded foam models (weasel, xeno) could remain airborne in the 12 kt wind with turbulent conditions.

The consensus of the expert observers was it is possible the conditions were not suitable for a fast composite model. They thought the cg was wrong and the model was way too nose-heavy, however it was 20mm behind the LE.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[iti20090]

Hi - I similarly maidened my Mini Q this past Saturday, using the recommended 20 mm CG (to wing leading edge) - I routinely dial some extra trim for plank launching and that came in real handy as the very light conditions eventually meant a flight up trim of about 3.5 mm. I had just used one 10mm diameter lead ball right in the nose with a 850ma Life, don't know the grams.

Mini Q maiden

I then moved the receiver back to the rear bay overnight to tweak the CG rearwards and flew again Sunday in better wind - once I got the trim settled it really kicked down nicely with trim at about 2.5 mm, magic little slope aerie, well worth persevering with. . I did see a video somewhere where a youngster was using 23mm CG, assumed youthful reflexes but could get there eventually.

I had a the Poky 40 a couple years back and used a switch to trim in about an extra 1.2 mm up trim, just for the launch only, will do same with the Mini Q ;-)

Cheers
Dave
PS - thanks muchly to the excellent build guide on this forum

I maidened my miniQ today, unfortunately it did not go so well. I built it as a glider only, and I needed 60 gm of lead in the nose cone to get a cg 20 mm behind the leading edge at the fuselage. All up weight was 360 gm. We waited for a day with a 10-15 kt wind, south to SE. At the slope (Sydney, Australia) it seemed the wind was S to SSW (as everyone agrees if conditions are not great, don't do the maiden).

Several expert flyers from the club were on hand to observe. I thought I would have 2mm reflex up (meaning the elevon was up 2mm from the wing trailing edge) for the first launch, but advice was its better to have it in line with the TE. The model dived straight to the ground after launch on the grassy slope. I tried putting in 1mm, and then 2mm of reflex, but the same thing happened. A launch over the cliff edge led to the same thing, and while the model was easily retrieved a loose servo ended the session with the miniQ; there was no significant damage. Flying with other models, the lift was weak and only lightly loaded foam models (weasel, xeno) could remain airborne in the 12 kt wind with turbulent conditions.

The consensus of the expert observers was it is possible the conditions were not suitable for a fast composite model. They thought the cg was wrong and the model was way too nose-heavy, however it was 20mm behind the LE.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Haoyang Wang]

Yes, elevon reflex is needed.

In light wind, you have to throw it hard. If you throw it above the stall speed, even if there is not enough lift, the plane will still glide down long and smoothly. I finished trimming my MiniQ in similar light wind, and got a lot of climbing exercise.

 

[Konrad]

I would never fly if I had to wait for great conditions!

Not knowing the lift profile of your hill, I'd think the mini Q should fly in 15knot winds.
While the mini Q can fly fast she actually is a very nice slow flier.

Over 10 pages in this thread and all say to reflex the TE. What experiance do your expert fliers have with non-reflexed airfoiled planks?

Timid launches are way up there as to being the cause of failed maiden flight! On a maiden have a helper throw your ship out into the vast void with a lot of force. Like he was throwing a soccer ball, but with a bit more control.

Without reflex the model would look way nose heavy! Set the TE up 2mm (reflex), set the CG at 20mm and throw the ship into the wind with abandon!

Look at post #242 for great info on set up

Mini Q

Yup... not going for all out speed now. I wanted the folding prop, so this will be just about right. Its 27.8mm in diameter and the inside diameter of the plane is about 32mm. I am a little concerned about cooling air being able to get in and out. I will probably cut some exit holes in the rear...

forum.alofthobbies.com

And might I say find someone with experiance flying planks (tailless aircaft).

All the best,
Konrad

 

[gp49]

Hi gregg,

My son was able to launch the Q on our local slope (Coyote Hills) without two much effort in 12 - 15 mph. 20mm CG and 2mm up reflex. There is a vid of him launching it in the link below. We have since moved the CG back to ~23mm with same reflex. I agree with Konrad, the miniQ can be a slow flyer. Last weekend Alex (my son) had a problem launching the Q for the first time, but that was in 35 - 40 mph winds. It took him a couple of tries to finally toss it out with gusto. It worked. miniQ was very lively but easy to control. A couple of recommendations: do not epoxy/glue the tail on your Q. We did and got some damage on landing. Put your reflex on a left stick or a slider. You will be able to control/adjust it in the air easier - however - control surface movement must be kept to a minimum from the original 2mm up reflex.

Was finaly able to maiden the miniQ at Coyote today! New Year's Day !
Well it was actually Alex, my 13 year old test pilot that did it. AUW is at 401 grams with the CG at 20mm. It did fly pretty good once we got some 12 - 15 mph winds at 3 pm. Next time we will take a few grams out of the front to move the cg back and add some more ailerons ( right now at 6mm up/down)


View attachment 3060View attachment 3061View attachment 3060View attachment 3061View attachment 3062View attachment 3063

 

[Wayne]

I think the average seems to be about 22mm for the CG and 2 to 2.5mm of reflex upward on the elevons. The elevator throws should only be about 3 to 4mm up and the same amount down, more will only get you into trouble. Some will want less, a few may want more. The CG will alter how much elevator input can be tolerated. For the roll, you can have a ton if you like. but I would suggest starting on the docile side, maybe 5mm up and 5mm down, tune from there. (Throws are measured at the trailing edge.)

The plane has shown it can fly well in light lift conditions, but best for the maiden to be in a moderate lift day. If the lift is bumpy, the maiden may be a little more difficult.

Planks are always a challenge on their first flights. The CG is a very small range, and the CG will alter how the elevator works. Typically as you push the CG back you will usually reduce the elevator throws. Push the CG to far back and it will not be fun, and too far forward and you will not be able to keep the nose up, or if it flies you will be up and down all over the place. It can feel like tail heavy, but is actually nose heavy. And tail heavy is just like tail heavy.. At least this is my experience. But get that CG just right and you will have a very efficient plane that loves to carve turns and holds energy really well.

A "Plank" flying wing is a different animal than a "Chevron" flying wing. The simple way to describe them is a Chevron will have a lot of wing sweep (forward or reverse). Like this early Northrop:

These Chevron's have a wide CG range and can have large throws on the elevator. They are rather forgiving, I once lost my balance lead on one and could still fly even though I lost a substantial amount of nose weight.

The Mini-Q does not have all of that wing sweep:

This is a PLANK design and the CG range is very small, and the elevator throws will also be very small. They are not tolerant of the CG being off. Either they fly or they are not flyable. You will see very few aircraft with this design for carrying a human as they simply are to critical. I have seen some try though.. So why mess with a plank when a Chevron is easier? In my experience they just flat out are much more efficient. I'll let an aerodynamics major speak more precisely on the subject, but they present less drag.

I hope this helps some.. I'm sure someone will find fault with something I said.. but that should be pretty close.

 

[gregg]

These comments and experiences are much appreciated!

 

[jvaliensi]

The yellow flying wing crashed last year and killed the pilot. I got to see it fly at the 2018 Chino air show.
It used an 'bell curve' lift distribution to be stable in the yaw axis. This is the same as the Horton wing and the way birds maintain stability. NASA gave a talk about this at the 2018 AMA show in Pomona. I asked too many questions, so they gave me a copy of their white paper on the subject.

 

[Wayne]

Yep, that M9N is no longer with us. It was a really neat plane that flew out of China California. Had a number of interesting things, the Franklin engines on that plane are very rare, and they actually were a good bit of the trouble for the museum when they brought the plane up to flying status. It had been flying for the last 25 years or so. If you live out that way I highly recommend checking out the Planes of Fame museum at Chino (grab a meal at Flow's while you are there) and for sure attend they annual air show, it is AMAZING if you like WW2 aircraft. I don't know of a better gathering of rare birds, and they all fly! Where else will you see images like these:

This is a must for anyone that loves warbirds. You will see stuff fly here that you simply will not see anywhere else.

 

[Hank GB Z]

Also if you go to Chino there is a second museum at the other end of the airport called Yanks Air museum. It’s equally impressive and has flyable aircraft too. Plan to spend the whole day and see both.

Hank

 

[Wayne]

Just a quick update - I have asked for a couple of changes for the Mini-Qs that should be easy for the manufacturer to achieve and totally fix the wing joiner issues.

I found this video over on RC Groups, hope you all are having fun with your Mini-Qs!

 

[Diceman]

Awwww, that is Greg! RIP Greg. Great guy, he was always very nice to me.

 

[Wayne]

Yep, he is missed!! Never did hear if they had a memorial service.

 

[Jure Z]

love my Mini Q.
flew last Friday at Coyote Hills. What a blast !

 

[Wayne]

Glad you are enjoying it! We have a bunch more on order, think they will start to roll in a couple of weeks from now.

 

[Rockdean]

Here’s my reinforcement for the upper surface’s attachment to the center bulkhead.
I still need to bond it in. I may narrow it some if there’s a problem inserting gear.

Maybe the vendor can change the upper surf cutout from one hole to two leaving a bridge.

could someone please give me the opening measurement above the spar? My spar needs to be repaired and I need to flex the wing to the correct amount. Thanks Roy Branda

 

[Konrad]

Have the mini Q's made into the order that is on its way from TJIRC? Are their any with bottom hinged surfaces?

 

[gp49]

[/QUOTE]could someone please give me the opening measurement above the spar? My spar needs to be repaired and I need to flex the wing to the correct amount. Thanks Roy Branda
[/QUOTE]
Hi Roy,

Does this help?

Bulkhead gap 1.416"
Gap at canopy recess 1.770 "