Learning CAD!!

[Hawaii Sloper]

So I have a few projects that I want to start but realized that I need a basic working understanding of CAD and LightBurn. I recently bought a Diode Laser and lightburn has been pretty easy on the whole but CAD has been a different story. Pretty frustrating starting from absolute zero.
After seeing @Hank GB Z start a thread here about 3D printing help and resources, I thought maybe starting a CAD thread would be helpful also.
My goals for CAD would be to be able to do a layout/design for cutting Balsa models and printing a build sheet. Basically I want to design and make my own models.
I am using Wing Helper and that is really easy to use for wing design and construction, then export to LightBurn.
@thenated0g has helped me a bit with LightBurn but I wanted to find out from some of the guy that use CAD this way If they could provide some direction on where to start.
I've been looking at possibly doing an online course for CAD or buying a course if I can but, having no experience with it, I don't know what would be a good one to try. I have looked at Skillshare but there is a bunch of stuff on the platform that seems not applicable.
I don't have a technical background but I'm not on the Double Digits end of the IQ scale either. lol
What are your suggestions guys?

On a side note...I have been really impressed with what @jure and @Doc J have been doing with the DH108 PSS! I would also like to get to the point where I can design basic parts for 3D printing before I dive into that part of the pool. To quote Doc:
"The project so far:
Jure (Pronounced Yu-rey by the way - don't you just hate getting people's names wrong?) has taken some of the online drawings, and converted the scale 3-views to 3-D CAD using "Onshape" software, and with little or no prior experience, at the same time, has used the design exercise to learn to use the programme."

 

[HENNY]

So I have a few projects that I want to start but realized that I need a basic working understanding of CAD and LightBurn. I recently bought a Diode Laser and lightburn has been pretty easy on the whole but CAD has been a different story. Pretty frustrating starting from absolute zero.
After seeing @Hank GB Z start a thread here about 3D printing help and resources, I thought maybe starting a CAD thread would be helpful also.
My goals for CAD would be to be able to do a layout/design for cutting Balsa models and printing a build sheet. Basically I want to design and make my own models.
I am using Wing Helper and that is really easy to use for wing design and construction, then export to LightBurn.
@thenated0g has helped me a bit with LightBurn but I wanted to find out from some of the guy that use CAD this way If they could provide some direction on where to start.
I've been looking at possibly doing an online course for CAD or buying a course if I can but, having no experience with it, I don't know what would be a good one to try. I have looked at Skillshare but there is a bunch of stuff on the platform that seems not applicable.
I don't have a technical background but I'm not on the Double Digits end of the IQ scale either. lol
What are your suggestions guys?

On a side note...I have been really impressed with what @jure and @Doc J have been doing with the DH108 PSS! I would also like to get to the point where I can design basic parts for 3D printing before I dive into that part of the pool. To quote Doc:
"The project so far:
Jure (Pronounced Yu-rey by the way - don't you just hate getting people's names wrong?) has taken some of the online drawings, and converted the scale 3-views to 3-D CAD using "Onshape" software, and with little or no prior experience, at the same time, has used the design exercise to learn to use the programme."

Try FREEcad it has lots of on line tutorials.

 

[jure]

if interested in Onshape, there are lots of training videos in YouTube

In this environment, everything starts from a sketch ( a 2D drawing which can be on any plane )
from here , there are tools to produce Solids , Surfaces and 3D curves.

It is possible to export using different target file formats: the sketches ( to: DXF , DWG ) , and the solid parts ( see list of formats in the screenshot attached below ) .

here is a list of links at the OS site:
All OS Courses
fundamentals
basics
sketching
getting started series
example lofting a fuselage
aerofoils in OS
All OS videos

I'll be glad to help with your ramp up process !

 

[Red]

Great thread idea. I support anyone who is trying to scratch build, or just make something that isn't readily available on the open market. It is a dying art.

I embraced CAD in the mid 80's (yeah I'm old) when I figured out I could use to build better models. I don't claim to be an expert, but I will share my work flow and considerations born from all of my mistakes haha. There are just some general thoughts and rules of thumb in no particular order.

Some things I consider before I even start designing.

• What materials will you build from? - Formers, ribs, fuse sides etc. all need to fit on available material. Consider stock wood sheet sizes for your parts.
• Who are you designing for? - Will this be a kit? Even if not, will your friends want one? This means shipping. I often pick a box size first and design within it. For instance my micro kits, the closest available boxes were 18" long, so for me that meant 17" max sheet length to allow for packing materials.

CAD

• The very first thing you should so is set drawing units. Most every designs in Metric now, but I am old school and use Imperial. Wood available here in the states is in fractions, makes it easy for me. Translation errors are a big concern, going from one to the others can cause issues. Nothing worse than getting into a design and finding out your CAD system is using furlongs per fortnight when you really wanted radians per leap year. Especially watch this when importing from other users/sources.
• Use a dial caliper - Measure your wood! Stop laughing. Laser cutters are capable of amazing precision, but it is only as good as what you tell it. Hard lesson for me early on that advertised wood sizes aren't necessarily reality. This will save considerable headache. For instance 1/8" lite ply actually isn't, more often than not its 3MM or .11. Same with a 2 x 4 from the lumber yard.
• Orthogonal command - Might be called something different in your CAD package, but basically it forces the lines you draw to either be horizontal or vertical. Straight lines are nice when you need them, turn it off when you don't.
• Learn to use the snap command - This is for joining one line or object to another line or object. Just making them connect on the screen isn't good enough. Open ends, crossed lines etc. play havoc with the laser and cutting efficiency.
• When you are ready to send a file to the laser, "group" all your parts - Many time if you do not the laser will cut in the order drawn. Grouped parts tend to finish cutting completely before moving to the next one.
• Text - You can greatly reduce cut time by outlining any text instead of solid letters.
• Learn to use layers. Think of layers like the old transparencies on a projector in school. They are used for different things and stacked onto each other for the finished drawing. They can be turned on and off to accomplish whatever task you wish. I typically use 4 layers:
• 1 (bottom most) - PDF or any underlying geometry that I am using for reference (picture, plans etc.)
• 2 Construction geometry - Center lines, guide curves, construction lines etc. Stuff you need to draw the shapes, but not part of the final cut files.
• 3 Parts - This is where I draw
• 4 Text - Lettering and notes go here. Easy to turn off for prototyping, available later if necessary.

There is much, much more obviously. I'm happy to answer any questions as they come up if I'm able to. We could even Skype or whatever and share screens.

Best of luck!

Red

 

[Hawaii Sloper]

You guys are awesome! I’ll try to digest some of this and get going in a direction.
Keep the suggestions coming!
@jure Onshape looks great! I just put it on my IPad and my laptop. I’ll look into the tutorials and see how hard it will be for me. I was seriously impressed that you had never used it before the DH108 project! Wow!!
@Red thanks! Great input on the overall design process. Those items alone will save a ton of frustration in my initial projects. I did laugh out loud at the dial caliper joke. I have a couple pretty decent digital ones.
I have been loving the design process that @Wayne , @RafaelAvila , and @Jarron have been showing in the build threads the past few months. The blend of balsa and 3D printed parts is really awesome. It feels like the rc world version of a thermocline! Lol
What really got me wanting to do my own stuff has been seeing Red’s micro planes. They felt like that was in the realm of doable for me design wise.

 

[RafaelAvila]

You guys are awesome! I’ll try to digest some of this and get going in a direction.
Keep the suggestions coming!
@jure Onshape looks great! I just put it on my IPad and my laptop. I’ll look into the tutorials and see how hard it will be for me. I was seriously impressed that you had never used it before the DH108 project! Wow!!
@Red thanks! Great input on the overall design process. Those items alone will save a ton of frustration in my initial projects. I did laugh out loud at the dial caliper joke. I have a couple pretty decent digital ones.
I have been loving the design process that @Wayne , @RafaelAvila , and @Jarron have been showing in the build threads the past few months. The blend of balsa and 3D printed parts is really awesome. It feels like the rc world version of a thermocline! Lol
What really got me wanting to do my own stuff has been seeing Red’s micro planes. They felt like that was in the realm of doable for me design wise.

For simple design 2d for laser cut also if you need more powerful software I highly recommend fusion. It's full capable of everything and if you need some help I can definitely can give you a hand

 

[HENNY]

Great thread idea. I support anyone who is trying to scratch build, or just make something that isn't readily available on the open market. It is a dying art.

I embraced CAD in the mid 80's (yeah I'm old) when I figured out I could use to build better models. I don't claim to be an expert, but I will share my work flow and considerations born from all of my mistakes haha. There are just some general thoughts and rules of thumb in no particular order.

Some things I consider before I even start designing.

• What materials will you build from? - Formers, ribs, fuse sides etc. all need to fit on available material. Consider stock wood sheet sizes for your parts.
• Who are you designing for? - Will this be a kit? Even if not, will your friends want one? This means shipping. I often pick a box size first and design within it. For instance my micro kits, the closest available boxes were 18" long, so for me that meant 17" max sheet length to allow for packing materials.

CAD

• The very first thing you should so is set drawing units. Most every designs in Metric now, but I am old school and use Imperial. Wood available here in the states is in fractions, makes it easy for me. Translation errors are a big concern, going from one to the others can cause issues. Nothing worse than getting into a design and finding out your CAD system is using furlongs per fortnight when you really wanted radians per leap year. Especially watch this when importing from other users/sources.
• Use a dial caliper - Measure your wood! Stop laughing. Laser cutters are capable of amazing precision, but it is only as good as what you tell it. Hard lesson for me early on that advertised wood sizes aren't necessarily reality. This will save considerable headache. For instance 1/8" lite ply actually isn't, more often than not its 3MM or .11. Same with a 2 x 4 from the lumber yard.
• Orthogonal command - Might be called something different in your CAD package, but basically it forces the lines you draw to either be horizontal or vertical. Straight lines are nice when you need them, turn it off when you don't.
• Learn to use the snap command - This is for joining one line or object to another line or object. Just making them connect on the screen isn't good enough. Open ends, crossed lines etc. play havoc with the laser and cutting efficiency.
• When you are ready to send a file to the laser, "group" all your parts - Many time if you do not the laser will cut in the order drawn. Grouped parts tend to finish cutting completely before moving to the next one.
• Text - You can greatly reduce cut time by outlining any text instead of solid letters.
• Learn to use layers. Think of layers like the old transparencies on a projector in school. They are used for different things and stacked onto each other for the finished drawing. They can be turned on and off to accomplish whatever task you wish. I typically use 4 layers:
• 1 (bottom most) - PDF or any underlying geometry that I am using for reference (picture, plans etc.)
• 2 Construction geometry - Center lines, guide curves, construction lines etc. Stuff you need to draw the shapes, but not part of the final cut files.
• 3 Parts - This is where I draw
• 4 Text - Lettering and notes go here. Easy to turn off for prototyping, available later if necessary.

There is much, much more obviously. I'm happy to answer any questions as they come up if I'm able to. We could even Skype or whatever and share screens.

Best of luck!

Red

This 80 year young person knows what he's taking about.

 

[G-man]

RED> Use a dial caliper - Measure your wood! Stop laughing. Laser cutters are capable of amazing precision, but it is only as good as what you tell it.

Sometimes we remind ourselves that "Computers don't do what you want them to do. They do what you tell them to do."

Red, Thanks for your contributions on this topic.

 

[Wayne]

CAD packages - You have a LOT to pick from. Just picking one can be a headache. You may want to try a couple of different apps and just do their first tutorial and see what you think. If they don't offer a tutorial from the company itself, you might want to run away and find another app. You want a company that is investing in training their users, IMHO.

I have a graphics background. Was a graphics designer in a prior life. You would think this would help me, but sadly those graphics programs while similar to CAD packages in many ways, all of the commands and controls are different, and this still messes with me as I have thousands of hours in the graphics apps. So your coming from nothing may be an advantage as you don't need to reprogram your brain.

The other issue I'll stress is cost. While you have a number of EXCELLENT CAD packages that offer a very low or free use license, often times these free options come with a price tag. Do you want to keep your work for yourself, or openly available to all? This for example is an issue with Onshape. So might be worth looking into those sorts of concerns if this will bug you.

I have played with Fusion and like it a lot. I struggled with it at the start, and found if I didn't use it for a while I had trouble jumping back into it. It is a very fleshed out program and can do way more than you will ever need. For example sheet metal bending.. But on the plus side, should you ever get into that for a work project... Might be of great value to you.

I have a designer we will probably be doing some work with soon and he uses Blender for his CAD needs. Yep, he designs his planes in Blender. I don't know much about Blender, but was surprised to hear it could be used for this. The guy loves it, and he is able to make his super nice instructions right from the Blender drawings. An example:

Looking at Blender's description, it does mention uses for 3D printing.

(I might need to play with Blender a bit to see if I like it. Maybe it will be a bit more related to my past experience as it is mostly a graphics tool.)

Currently I use Shapr3D and really like it a lot. It's focus is ease of use and is very focused on being an IPAD app. I have only used it on my computers, but in tutorials I see people flying through it on an IPAD. It does come with a monthly price tag. The company behind it has been steadily advancing the package to higher and higher levels. It shares files well with Fushion and other packages. Coming fromother packages I will say I LOVE the efforts they have put into the user interface. I don't think anyone comes close in this regard. It has all of the tools I have needed thus far, but have not attempted to loft out a fuselage like Jure did in Onshape.

Onshape has some amazing and very modern features. There is a lot to like about it. I find myself pulled towards that one as a business owner, but the price tag for my little operation is not practical.

I took a brief look at a number of older but free CAD packages and didn't like them. Many seems to be locked in time with no updating anymore. Some are being updated, but are ancient in all the wrong ways.

 

[Hawaii Sloper]

Thanks @Wayne also really helpful information. I think you hit it on the head that there are so many CAD programs out there that just picking one is an obstacle. Especially when I can't tell from experience which is good or not.
It seems like I have a short list to explore: Onshape, FreeCAD, Fusion, AutoCAD, Shapr3D and one @Red recommended: DesignCAD 2D.

Edit: looks like Shapr3D can only export if you pay for at least a monthly subscription.

 

[Hawaii Sloper]

@Red does DesignCAD have a template for the layout sheet that you use or is that your own? Would you mind sharing a blank one?
Like this one you posted for the Wanderer.

 

[Red]

@Red does DesignCAD have a template for the layout sheet that you use or is that your own? Would you mind sharing a blank one?
Like this one you posted for the Wanderer.View attachment 18620

Just a blank sheet I drew and use as a template. I vary the size depending on the model, I'm happy to draw one up for you.

 

[Doc J]

Dayum I should be persuading you gents to forget about CAD, and ditch home designing and buy my ARF models instead...only problem is I'm a modeller like you!

I love the home model design and build ethic so much! Its REAL aeromodelling.

I'm not sure if I could be called a professional model designer or not, but I sure as hell have designed a lot of planes, from chuck gliders, through all aspects of model making, and loved every minute of it. Done a few big 'models' too.

I'm actually really happy that with modern technology, more and more modellers are realizing their own ideas.

New ideas, new ways, better results - only in this way will we all improve.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Wayne]

Edit: looks like Shapr3D can only export if you pay for at least a monthly subscription.

Yeah, while it makes sense for me,I don't think it makes sense for a hobbyist.

 

[Hawaii Sloper]

Yeah, while it makes sense for me,I don't think it makes sense for a hobbyist.

Exactly, At $25 a month subscription it's just a bit too high for the average user who is just doing a few projects a year

 

[Wayne]

Totally agree, I do not love the monthly either, but I like it alot better than $1500+ annually for some of the others.

I'm going to see if I can play with Blender a little this weekend. See how horrible it might be. I like the free nature of it, and the additional graphics capabilities.

For the designs I personally am doing here at the shop I'm after a user friendly solution that I can then export to the 3D printers or Fusion for final processing if needed. Sounds like Blender is in the running for this and can also be used for many other uses here at the shop. So for me this one is attractive.

When working on the Prelude (AH-100) project yesterday, I got a little stuck and asked Rafael if he might have some ideas, he was able to jump in and figure it out really quick even though he had never touched this software, it's functions and basic navigation was the same as Fushion. So that was a plus, I feel much better that what I am learning with Shapr can help me adjust to Fushion in the future should I go that way.