Konrad's departure

[Hank GB Z]

Well it finally happened. Konrad left the Aloft forum. This is not a good thing. Roughly looking at the statistics on this site, he alone was responsible for 20% of the content here, that is out of 2,400 members.

i have known Konrad for close to 20 years, and some of my best memories and times in the hobby have been building, and flying with him. The only people i have enjoyed the hobby more with is my dad and my oldest friend Chris. Over these 20 years, I have learned that Konrad's main driving philosophy in life is that everybody should have the best. Best trimmed plane, best programmed radio, best equipment, best car, best house they could afford, etc. In the hobby it didn't matter if it was a slow stick or some multi thousand dollar composite high end motor glider, it should be the best at what it is. To get people to have the best he asks questions. LOTS OF QUESTIONS. He also studies, learns, writes, documents and shares what he's learned and what he thinks. One would think then that he would be a great asset to a forum like this but apparently not, he wasn't kicked out of here but as he put it "I know when i'm not welcome." He was kicked out of both RC groups, and the Flite test forums, and maybe RC universe.

I have talked to him several times about this forum and how much he posted here. I pointed out that this really isn't a conversation it's really hard to go back and forth with out looking crazy. I said he didn't have to be the one man band trying to answer all the questions possible that it was ok for other people (especially the PAID employee's of Aloft) to answer questions. However that doesn't fit with his philosophy. He He ended up feeling un welcomed in a place he helped build into what it is and he left.

I recommended to him that he start his own blog and move the hobby on in that way, but for now I hope he uses the time he used to put in on this forum to finish some nice models and i'm gonna try to take a road trip to go flying with an old friend.

So my thoughts on this obviously personal and biased. I'm going to miss Konrad's posts here. He generated lots of dialog and he helped a lot of modelers fix, trim, build, program, improve, paint, and fly lot's of planes.

I personally don't like doing threads, I feel it cuts into my building time, and i end up with people telling me what they think my model should look like. So I have always admired how much work Konrad put into his build threads for his models.


My questions to the Aloft forums. What lines did Konrad cross? Is there a behavior agreement i missed when i set up my profile? Is there a un written limit to how many posts a person should make in a day? Should there be a set of Forums that only Aloft employees can post in to answer questions about the products they sell? Does any of this matter?

My buddy Chris ran Gyro hobbies in Laguna Hills for awhile. He told me once "I used to argue that the models were real planes and not toys, that they followed all the same laws of physics and aerodynamics as full size planes and should be treated as such. Then one day two guys in their 60's got in a fight over an ARF kit like 2 kids on the play ground and I decided they really are toys" I think we really are just kids with our toys...

Hank

who's headed home to go build Lego's with his kids.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Hi Hank,

I enjoyed my interaction with Konrad very much once I'd figured out that his intentions - as you mention - were "honourable"(!) and I think he did too, and once the battle lines were erased we both actually learned quite a lot from each other; coming from different angles across the common engineering table.

Konrad could be a bit "specific" and possibly a little intense at times which could piss some people off, but once you know its not any kind of intentional jab its OK. Actually I was probably worse than him in that respect until I was enlightened to the error of my ways. I don't think diplomacy was something that ranked high on either of our agendas, and he could drive me batshit at times with his insistence on the absolute LETTER of the law so to speak. Also, I'm quite sure that Konrad would agree with me if I said he enjoyed a good - even if at times heated - debate.

I am still doing quite a bit of development work with Konrad and I hope to do more. He has been invaluable in rooting out the real nitty gritty details that both of us think separate the lumber Jacks from the lumber Jills in model design and production and the result is starting to show in the new models I'm now producing, while the general quality and reliability of the older planes is still rising, and that largely due to his inputs.

I'll still be in regular touch with him even if its not public - - we have a long agenda yet.

Cheers,

Doc.

 

[Raymond Gaskins]

I am a newbie to this forum, but an oldie to this hobby/passion. For those who analyze statistics, it will be obvious that I have logged close to an hour a day reading posts on the Aloft forum, but very little time posting, as I am new to Open Tx and new to Ethos, and yes, new to FrSky. I was encouraged to get involved by a retired engineer flying buddy of more than 50 years, as we needed to move on from our previous radio systems to the fantastic flexibility of Open Tx.
I have found most of the questions I have asked to be rapidly and helpfully responded to in a way not found by me on any other forum. Konrad, in particular, was extremely helpful. I hope he reconsiders and returns to the forum.
Unfortunately, the very nature of forums, can result in hurt feelings and misunderstandings that would never develop in in person discussions. At the end of the day, we all are blessed with many opportunities to be helped and help others.
Thanks for your help and for the opportunity to express my “feelings”.
Raymond Gaskins

 

[Hank]

Although I don't go that far back as you guys knowing Konrad and I never met him in person, I have interacted with him through the forums over the years.
First I got help and advice from him in RCUniverse on Fox glow engines, then on RCTruth before it was closed down, and finally here in Aloft on Frsky radios.
I learned early on that Konrad was not being belligerent but inquiring and detailed. While his striving for excellence in flying models and their related equipment is admirable, I wish that he would accept that humans (and human institutions) are not something that can be worked to perfection. That is an impossible task.
Since I don't know Konrad in person, I probably won't be getting his insight and knowledge related to this hobby unless he ends up in another site that I frequent.

 

[thenated0g]

Konrad had been pretty vocal about leaving other social media sites and forums so I would say this isn't really surprising he has moved on. His comments too very often come off as attacking what someone's doing, when you don't know him I have to say, and so I know from personal experience, again before I knew him more, that he probably unintentionally hurt others feelings. I can only speak in my case but as an example he seems to come from more of an engineering background where there is literally the best way to do something and this is the way that you do something where as I come from the background of I have some trash and junk in my garage I just want to see if flying around and I'm not looking for the best process I just want to go through the process of trying different things out. And so initially to have someone like basically what it seemed like to me in the beginning kind of questioning why I'm even doing things the way I'm doing that can kind of lead to her feelings and not wanting to even comment anymore. So I have no idea what this situation is about but I'm pretty sure that some of the things he's been filtered on has been what could seem like to new people as kind of not kind talk at times.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

I find I dont have Konrad's email address. Can someone PM it to me?

Thanks chaps!

Doc.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

I am a newbie to this forum, but an oldie to this hobby/passion. For those who analyze statistics, it will be obvious that I have logged close to an hour a day reading posts on the Aloft forum, but very little time posting, as I am new to Open Tx and new to Ethos, and yes, new to FrSky. I was encouraged to get involved by a retired engineer flying buddy of more than 50 years, as we needed to move on from our previous radio systems to the fantastic flexibility of Open Tx.
I have found most of the questions I have asked to be rapidly and helpfully responded to in a way not found by me on any other forum. Konrad, in particular, was extremely helpful. I hope he reconsiders and returns to the forum.
Unfortunately, the very nature of forums, can result in hurt feelings and misunderstandings that would never develop in in person discussions. At the end of the day, we all are blessed with many opportunities to be helped and help others.
Thanks for your help and for the opportunity to express my “feelings”.
Raymond Gaskins

Hi Raymond, I think one of the main reasons that Wayne decided to start this forum was because there really was no place where genuine queries, requests for help, or in fact almost anything could be made public without a troll, or a know it all, or someone saying something negative about something being aired. Happily Trolling is now officially recognised as a mental illness.
People forget - and I am still at a complete loss as to understanding this - that this is a HOBBY, its boys playing with toys and however you spin it, thats the truth.

That means by default we do this for FUN.
Unfortunately some people don't do it for fun - unless of course you count bullying, baiting and insulting others as fun.

The other forums, and one in particular seem to; if not condone, then at least not discourage this type of disgusting and negative behaviour as it probably gets the readership level up. These are the same kind of people who will slow down to get good look at a fatal traffic accident. This forum has none of that, and on the few occasions when it has made an unwelcome appearance, it has been nipped in the bud extremely fast.

Here you can air your views, and get good information and advice at any time, and most of all concentrate on why we should be doing this great hobby of ours, and that is enjoyment and good old fashioned fun.

Some people have a way of communication that might seem to others a bit too forceful. I am one of them - though I have tried hard to temper my posts of late. In Konrad's case I use the word "specific" as this is him to a tee. He never wanted to decry or attack anyone. He was just using his bald engineering way to state the truth as far as he knew it, and in that his intentions were always good but I dont think the word "diplomacy' was high on his list.

Alas, as we know all to well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Though Konrad has made his exit, and this is his choice, all of us know in our hearts that he's a actually a great guy, and a really good engineer, but he can drive you a bit crazy at times!

Long live Aloft forums, say I!

Doc.

 

[Wayne]

@Hank GB Z - Thanks for starting this thread. Konrad has indeed become a very big part of this forum and I think we should discuss this a bit.

From my perspective I was very torn on Konrad's activity. First off I love Konrad, and I hope he is still a good friend. His goals were to help people and to hold manufacturers to a higher level. No complaints here. He helped countless people.

On the other hand, many people felt they were being attacked and either complained to me privately or simply left the forum following a heated topic with Konrad. This was not the experience I wanted for our visitors. I want this space to be open and positive. At times it was going the other direction.

I discussed my concerns as they arose with Konrad. Sadly it often had little effect. I tried just about everything I could think of to help Konrad see this other persona he had. In the week building up to his departure he was very aware of my requests and I think he was trying to adjust. I think this was a lot of work for him and stressed him out. For this I am very sorry.

Konrad is a good friend and flying buddy. I'm sure I will see him at the slopes and hope to fly with him for a good long time! His love is the same as ours, RC models. All of his intentions were perfectly fine.

 

[HENNY]

I am sad that Konrad couldn't see what he was projecting. I must say I was very impressed with his detailed radio history and glider write ups and many amazing images. Will miss these.

 

[Joe Garfield]

I'm just getting into this site and have obviously came across many of Konrad's posts. I'm sorry to learn that he left. It's kind of interesting: I never noticed anything negative, just a pure desire to get accurate answers. But then, I'm a passionate aerospace engineer with the same motivations - to design the best - and have been told at work "I ask pointed questions and people feel threatened" when that's never at all what my intent is

I wish the best for him. It was good to read that Wayne was trying to work with him, and I hope their connection remains the same.

 

[Wayne]

Konrad still stops in on the forum from time to time, and he has stopped by the shop a few times too. I certainly have no bad feelings towards him, and thank him for his constant support and encouragement over the years.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

I'm still talking to Konrad, off the Forum.
On the forum we had some really stimulating duels - but again always with no bad feelings as we both want the same thing: To derive as much honest happiness and joy as possible from a really stimulating hobby.

Sometimes, Konrad is a bit like talking to a computer. He goes "GIGOT"

Cheers,

Doc.

 

[Hank GB Z]

Ever the contrarian, Konrad keeps coming around after my big post about his exit.

Hank

 

[fredman2]

I'm new here and seeing that Konrad has left Is too bad for the forum. He may be direct but from what I've seen he isn't really out of bounds. It's hard to find those with this kind of experience to be able to constructively have a dialog. It's a great loss not to have him here. Hopefully he'll chime in time to time and provide his thoughts and expertice.

 

[Konrad]

Ever the contrarian, Konrad keeps coming around after my big post about his exit.

Hank

LOL, I'm now at the family estate in Denver trying to winterize the old homestead after my 95 year old dad broke his hip. I have to admit I'm going insane with the family issues. I popped in here to find some continuity to life.

Wayne had some issues with my direct hard hitting posting style of things as I see it, with little regard to how other's might see it. He has so much concern with this, as to label me an internet bully. When asked for specific examples he failed to provide these. He said he has examples of folks that actually have complained to him about me attacking them. While I admit that I have very strong views, I've rarely attacked anyone. (Products YES, folks no). I may ask folks to clarify their position. But this is done so that I can understand their position a bit more fully. Rarely is this an attack. Now there have been about 3 or 4 guys where I've lost it. Not too bad a record in my book.

Now reading some of the responses in this thread (thank you Hank GB Z) I see where one respondent felt attacked for my lack of artistic support to his earlier post. In this case I saw some structural issues and asked pointed question about it. He took the questioning as an attack. I'm sorry he saw it that way. What I was trying to do was head off a premature disaster and subsequent frustration. Far too often I seen creative guys with such enthusiasm leave after a string of unnecessary failures for the lack of basic structural understanding. I saw a lot of this with the Flite Test cardboard crowd. Luckily for us this individual is very persistent and actually will/has listened to constructive advice. As a result we now have a member that truly is pushing the envelope. This despite my apparent attacks on his original early posts. I really only had the best of intensions in trying to offer guidance on a forum that I see as a means to exchange information. I'm not nor have I ever been here to make friends at the cost of overlooking short coming to issues I see.

Wayne also is fed up with me harping on the same issues. This is a problem with forums, as they are forever Sept. That is the Freshman class always asks the same questions. So my answers will appear to be regurgitating the same material. For example I try to differentiate objective from subjective data. Wayne stated that this is annoying. While I may agree, I know on no other way to frame issues other than directly addressing the issue. Many of my post are far too long as it is without pussy footing around the issue and other's "feelings".

Wayne also didn't like that I'd go off in to deep dive discussion with some members that he felt where off topic. To that criticism I'm guilty. I do this to try to get to the core of the issue. Ether for my understanding to a question I asked or to make sure the member understands what I may have tried to say.

Now to be fair Wayne has been very tolerant of my views, he has only edited my posts where he thought I should have known the players and had taken into account their position. This is like when vendor/suppliers have started threads about their new products. (And to those vendors I apologies for raining down on their parade. I really don't know many of the players in this hobby, I may only know the products but not the people behind the product.) He has allowed me to clearly state my opinions on products he sells. He has never edited my less than glowing findings.

Now I'd like to thank @Hank as I think he nailed the core issue. I try to extract the best/ most from systems. But when dealing with those made by humans perfection isn't possible. I keep trying to reach that unattainable goal. But we all know that the perfect is the enemy of the good.

And Doc we had out last tussle over the terminology "IDS" where you were talking servo trays maybe with an external output bearing support. I wasn't trying to be the word police, but these are two different ideas/systems. To me Internal Drive System (IDS) means something different from external bearing supported servo trays. It took us 2 pages to get to the bottom of this. Based on my talks with Wayne I tried to inject some humor into that discussion only to get slapped.

So since this is Wayne's forum and it is tied to his livelihood I have chosen to leave or at least curtail my contribution to the forum discussions. Please understand that while Wayne was/is not happy about my posting history he has not banned me from the forum, as much as he would have liked too.

All the best,
Konrad

 

[thenated0g]

@Konrad I think too we forget to that we've all been suffering under this COVID-19 stuff in different ways, or under additional stress, even if you don't realize it. Not having in-person conversation and association. Like each of us would probably take the things that we say to each other a lot differently if we could actually talk to each other in real life. And so those two things combined probably don't help.

 

[Konrad]

Communication takes at least 2 involved individuals. And yes, ones expectation as to the outcome of the interaction is very hard to ascertain on forums, or from any initial contact in a written media.

Believe it or not I hate to write. (That may explain why I do it so poorly). As I recall we had our first interaction before Covid. You came here showing a neat wing like thing (maybe a floppy Flite-Test type thing). I think you were just wanting folks to know what interesting new thing you would be bringing to Sunset Beach. You weren't asking for help. I saw what I thought was a problem and went straight into asking you about the structure. Like I said earlier I have seen time and time again guys come into this hobby with neat ideas only to get frustrated and leave when they fail. Many of these failure can be predicted before the first flight, such as weight. As counter intuitive as weight is, it is your friend when it comes to trim. I've seen new guys fear adding weight only to crash after being grossly out of balance (tail heavy).

I generally am the kind of guy that looks at the hard facts first and I put a heavy emphasis on these. I admit I'm not much into the soft art of things. (This includes people). As things have progressed I have learned that you aren't afraid of failure, and in fact thrive on trying new things and learn from them. This is rare! I admire your creativity and your ever expanding skill sets as you create new airships. Your attitude is the counter balance to my rigid engineering focus. Truth be told it is guys like you that make the break throughs and add so much vitality to this hobby.

I'm sorry you felt our initial interaction was an attack. I really only wanted your ideas to fly.

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Hank]

Konrad, sorry about your dad getting injured and all the family issues. I know these things can be all-consuming at times.

 

[ORRich]

Non-verbal cues, intonation etc are all missed in written form - not making excuses, but a lot of this may never have been an issue in some interactions (per Nate's input) -

At a (full scale) flying club I used to belong to, we had a member that was very harsh (mostly in his face-to-face, verbal interactions) - he would make you feel very small - he (also an engineer) just couldn't come around to making it work with his fellow club members, which is one reason to join a flying club - and 99% of the time his critique, suggestions, etc were spot on - he had a ton of club history in his head - just the delivery method sucked, and it was a real turn off-

But, some of the club leadership must have spoken to him, because throughout the years he made big improvements in his communication style and his contributions were so much more valuable - he was a pleasure to talk with and discuss anything - issues were uncovered more easily because people felt more relaxed to come forth with them. I'm sure it took a lot of restraint and effort on his part, and very rarely his old habits made a a reappearance, but were quickly corrected.

Recently we honored him after being one of the longest-lasting member of the club (over 50 years!) - well-deserved recognition with standing ovation, and some tears in more than one members' eyes- this man cared a ton and gave a lot to the club and for that he was recognized - so glad that no one chased him out, but rather worked with him - anyhow sorry for the long rant.

a comment in a previous entry in this thread: 'regurgitating' the same info as new people come into the forum - I've seen some forums have closed channels for example under 'Radios' that has an intro 'article' with the basic questions answered - the same questions that come up time after time - so the title cold be "Radios->Servos- Read This First" - I know these aren't going to write themselves, but they could offer basic advice, pros cons, etc - so anyone coming in can be referred to these channels/sub-fora when the questions come up-

Thanks and I'd be glad to have Konrad's input in this forum -

 

[Txmustangflyer]

Being an engineer, Konrad, your knowledge is invaluable to us members of the uneducated masses. (I include myself in that mix, I don't even think doc really likes me, and Wayne probably thinks I'm a PITA)
Nor am I good at communication. My wife is lucky to get a grunt sometimes.

Bottom line, this forum is here, and we get it. You have a logical mind, all engineers do. One thing we have to remember is this is a forum, it's about divulging and sharing information. I've been out of the hobby for 8 years. My challenge isn't gliders or sale planes but scale powered, more precisely scale warbirds.
I'd like to think that Konrad, Wayne, Doc, and everyone else would use abrupt factual resolutions to help solve an issue I was having.
Wayne does, Doc does, if a question is posed. I've read some of Konrad's posts as I've researched things. They don't come across as mean, but, instead, to the point.
If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say his IQ is probably somewhere north of 150. I have a daughter who is a member of MENSA with a tested IQ of 168 as a sophomore in HS. Her son, with ausbergers, Tests at 182 at the age of 5.
They speak like Conrad types. Logical to the point, cause, effect resolution. It's how their minds work..they don't stop...at all.
Konrad, when you feel the need, please, please tell me where I'm screwing up. Even on an ARF build like I'm prepping for, if I'm doing something that's going to end up jeopardizing my plane, please say something. It will be welcomed.

To the rest of us. Engineers are perfectionists. Professionally they have to be, our lives depend on it. It's something that can't be shut off. Add to that, they see something off, they want to fix it. It drives them kinda nuts if they can't. Even to the point of being labeled OCD. This isn't about allowances, but understanding. I get it because I dealt with it with my daughter, and now my grandson. He took apart my cordless drill at age 4 to figure out how it worked..wasn't at all thrilled he had to put it together...same thing with the toaster, and a couple of other appliances. They are self driven to succeed, to make things better than they were, to fix what they see wrong and push the envelope where they can...all the time.