Is there a "FrSky for dummies" guide?

[getsuyoubi]

Pure range is definitely not the issue, as I keep my helicopters pretty close. Those Futaba airplane losses all occured in the same area of the field, during landing approach, so they were already pretty close to the TX. The field where I fly is right in-between a major cellphone tower and Jones Beach on Long Island. Problems occurred only during the summer, after that beach was populated which caused increased cell phone traffic between that tower and the beach. We do not have any direct measurements to prove anything, but this seems like a pretty consistent story. Anyway, my hope is that a second frequency band would save my helicopter in case those issues decide to arise with whatever 2.4GHz system I'm using.
Thanks!

 

[HENNY]

I don't see that 900MHz as a redundant system. Its intended for those that want long range flying. Like 5 or 10KM. 900MHz will have better RF propagation compared to 2.4GHz for the same RF power, If you look at the FRsky 900MHz solutions its power output is up to 1 watt using the gear change firmware compared to 2.4GHz of .1 watt or 100 milliwatt. 900MHz Penetrates hard surfaces better and Line-of-site antenna placement Not as important, you will however need to deal with much larger antennas compared to 2.4GHz. I have never had any range anxiety using 2.4GHz as long as you do not intend to fly out of eye site or behind trees especially when they are wet from rain. The newer range of receivers claim 2KM range that's 1.2 miles. The range issues mostly occur when model builder do not correctly arrange their receiver antennas. In my club I see flyers with antennas inside carbon fiber fuselage or even tape the antennas to the outside of carbon fiber or other conductive surfaces. FRsky/ Opentx have very good voice alerts standard for received signal strength (RSSI) that give you plenty of warning well before one has a crash situation. As I understand it the data caps for 900MHz and 2.4MHz are now the same when using the newer range of receivers. Best test the range with a foam plane and decide for yourself if 900MHz is even required. So many of our club flyers always blame their radio when a crash occurs and then put the same gear back in their next model. I would recommend that you should always have an on board battery monitor and RSSI fully activated with voice alerts to ensure you know the state of these critical items.

 

[Konrad]

Make sure you are using low gain antennas and that the oreintations are close to optimum. I fly a lot around here within 25 meters of cell towers with no issues. (I fly slope and thermal glider on mountain tops that are populated with a lot of high powered RF junk).

All the best,
Konrad

 

[HENNY]

One last bit of info here, as I understand it the Cell phone frequency bands are below.

Cell phones support three bands (900/1,800/1,900 MHz or 850/1,800/1,900 MHz)

There is no phone bands anywhere near 2.4GHz, WiFi yes, Bluetooth yes, garage doors yes, smart meters yes. But these are all low power with short range.
The FRsky ACCST uses the full RC allicated 2.4MHZ band spectrum in a very clever frequency hopping method making it very difficult to jamb.

 

[Konrad]

Yeah, what Henny said. From here, what I think you discribe with your friend's Futaba system looks more like antenna fade.

 

[getsuyoubi]

I'm aware that this whole story sounds strange, and it took us a long time to buy into it, but when even our most experienced pilots started losing their planes in that same spot it became more and more apparent that there was a real problem. There was a long thread on FlyingGiants at that time that described the details, but I can't find it at the moment because I don't frequent that site and simply forgot where to find it.
Anyway, there is no need to convince me to jump to FrSky - I will. The only question is when, and what equipment best suits my needs. I will definitely wait until the OpenTx manual for the x10s becomes available again, because that's what I'm planning on using.
Thanks for all your help!

 

[HENNY]

Download Opentx companion this will allow you to have a working radio simulator on your computer when you get the manual.

OpenTX 2.3.4

www.open-tx.org

Towards the bottom of the page you will see the link to Companion on Windows. Are you a windows person? There is also a Mac OS version.

 

[getsuyoubi]

Cool - thanks a lot!

 

[Konrad]

Nothing odd, antenna fade is a real problem. This along with signal blocking still gets me, and I've been flying RC since 1979!
(Fade and signal blocking are two different phenomenon)

Please down load Champion that both I and Henny have given you a link.

The Horus 10S* is Frsky's flag ship TX (the Horus 12* was a bit of a flop). The only issue is if you want to go with ACCESS or not. I strongly recommend that you do go with ACCESS from the start. While it is not fully implemented it works well and in its current state offers more features than ACCST.

Most modern FrSky RX's can be updated to run ACCESS with a free firmware upgrade. As you are new to FrSky I'd also recommend you start with ACCESS and the Archer RX.

What is nice with todays heli flight controllers (flybarless systems) is that most of the mixing is done on board the heli and not in the TX. This makes heli set up on the TX rather easy, unlike what we had in the 80's!

All the best,
Konrad

* The number in the TX nomenclature means NOTHING!. Unlike what we are use to with other brands where the number means the amount of channel we can directly manipulate (control).

Disclaimer: I fly on a X9E* (tray radio) and with a X9D+* running ACCST. I have no intention of upgrading to ACCESS. Mainly because it doesn't offer me anything I don't have with ACCST . And I don't think FrSky can make a business model that works to upgrade these legacy TX's. Remember the main reason for ACCESS was a business decision to try to cripple the FrSky clones.

 

[getsuyoubi]

I can only find the x10s Express here, which already comes with ACCESS. I guess that takes care of that decision.
I must admit that I love the layout of the x12, with the screen on top. Why is it considered a flop?
You are certainly right that with flybarless helicopters all the mixing is done in the FBL unit, which means the TX can be pretty simple. I'm therefore not even sure whether there is any benefit for me from OpenTx. If any, it should be just for some scale stuff, like sequencing gear bay doors and gear, for example. So far all my helis have skids anyway, so I would not need that feature anytime soon. I guess I will first just get the OpenTx manual before buying the actual radio. Leafing through it may give me some ideas that I haven't even thought of yet because there was no way to realize them with my present JR x9303.

 

[Konrad]

The more I think about it the more I think the manual will NOT be of much value to you (It is heavy on OpenTX). Now I'm sure some will think my forum account has been hacked. But looking at your mixing needs I think the FROS will suit you better coming from Jr/Spektrum.

I love OpenTX as I do a lot of heavy mixing with my sailplanes and jets (large EDF). I'm thinking OpenTX might not be worth the learning curve. The Horus is worth the purchase. I have said in the past that if I need another TX it will be a Horus 10.

FrSky Horus X10S Express

Q. What is an X10?A. FrSky combined the best features of the X9D and the X12 into a new radio. Start off with the great looks of the radio, now add the best color screen in the business, Hall Effect gimbals, great ergonomics and basically everything else

alofthobbies.com

The Horus X12 was too large. It did not feel good in the hand. With that large screen the balance was off (again did not feel good to hold) and with both screens (it only has one screen) one being color, battery life was a bit too short. I don't know this but I think it only came with the FSOS.

Horus X12S

Horus,X12S. FrSky's flagship transmitter.

alofthobbies.com

I still fly a JR 8103 with FrSky module. I like the feel in my hand. Its a bit week on electric sailplane programing, but for my normal flat land sport planes and EF-1 racers it is more than adiquate.

All the best,
Konrad

P.S.
It is the X9E that has dual screens. I like that as one of them gets block by my belly!

X9E, Getting to know you

I finally got the real replacement for my grand old ladies, the Multiplex Profi mc 4000v2. That is the FrSky X9E. The X9E has much the same programing power and layout. https://alofthobbies.com/frsky-taranis-x9e.html I need to make it clear that the real power of the Profi was in the object...

forum.alofthobbies.com

 

[getsuyoubi]

Thank you for your honest opinion regarding OpenTX. I stumbled upon an OpenTX manual elsewhere that I will read through. I'm pretty sure you are right that I won't need OpenTX, but there may be an "Oh, I didn't know I could even do that!" moment that I never even thought of due to the limitations of my present radio.

 

[Konrad]

The limitation with your present radio might still come to a head. But I don't think that would be anything that the FROS can't address. The difference between OpenTX and FROS is more philosophical in nature rather than a technical one. I have to admit that most of my "Oh, I didn't know I could do that" moments have been on the hardware side. FrSky is always coming out with new and innovative product. Yes, as with any program I'm often surprised by how other have come up with a more elegant solutions than I had. This isn't limitation of any one program rather my limited ability to experiment with the program at hand.

This is true of just about any program not just toy airplane OS's, those that have more experience with the program can get more out of them.

 

[getsuyoubi]

I started leafing through the OpenTX manual I found, and I think I like it! Setting up a FBL helicopter seems very logical. The example there uses an external module to connect to an AR7200 FBL/receiver combo. There is a remark that the Spektrum servo travel range is typically -80 to +80, while OpenTX is -100 to +100. I'm currently wondering whether I would have to take anything like that into account when I convert from Spektrum to FrSky/OpenTX at all. I guess I don't, because all the limits are set in the FBL (microbeastX) anyway.

 

[HENNY]

I started leafing through the OpenTX manual I found, and I think I like it! Setting up a FBL helicopter seems very logical. The example there uses an external module to connect to an AR7200 FBL/receiver combo. There is a remark that the Spektrum servo travel range is typically -80 to +80, while OpenTX is -100 to +100. I'm currently wondering whether I would have to take anything like that into account when I convert from Spektrum to FrSky/OpenTX at all. I guess I don't, because all the limits are set in the FBL (microbeastX) anyway.

It's very easy to set the limits to whatever you need in Opentx using the output menu. Then there is extended range as well if you need it. Spektrum limits its normal travel to +and - to 80%. This is done because years ago some servos may over travel their limits causing a crash. In Opentx every perimeter is upto the user to define.

 

[getsuyoubi]

I understand it's easy to set the limits. I'm just wondering whether I would have to limit the servo travel to 80% in OpenTX when the receiver is talking to a FBL unit anyway, because that FBL unit sets the servo travel limits, not the TX. Obviously I want my helis to behave the same with FrSky as they now do with Spektrum. The FBL units would remain untouched, and only the TX and RX would be swapped for FrSky. Of course I have to set expo and dual rates (which I don't use anyway) the same, or, to be more precise, equivalently.

 

[HENNY]

I understand it's easy to set the limits. I'm just wondering whether I would have to limit the servo travel to 80% in OpenTX when the receiver is talking to a FBL unit anyway, because that FBL unit sets the servo travel limits, not the TX. Obviously I want my helis to behave the same with FrSky as they now do with Spektrum. The FBL units would remain untouched, and only the TX and RX would be swapped for FrSky. Of course I have to set expo and dual rates (which I don't use anyway) the same, or, to be more precise, equivalently.

Rule of thumb. Set Expo and dual rates in the input menu. Set mixing if required in the mix menu. Set servo travel limit and Norm/Rev in the output menu.

 

[getsuyoubi]

I played with companion for an hour or two today, and I'm getting the hang of it. I was able to program a FBL helicopter already, but I still need to figure out how to set flight modes, why I already got a throttle cut switch (I believe I know why, but I'm not sure), and whether my way of adding expo is correct. The curve looks like an expo curve, but it does not explicitly say so. Well, at least I am at a point where I could ask meaningful questions if it was for real.
Edit:
The x10s OpenTX manual became available again today, so I ordered it. Looking forward to learning more.