Is there a "FrSky for dummies" guide?

[getsuyoubi]

I'm considering making the move from JR/Spektrum to FrSky, but I still seem to have a zillion questions. For instance, how do I connect two receivers in PWM mode to get more than 8 channels? Are ACCST and ACCESS equivalent to, say DSM2 and DSMX, and is there compatibility between the two protocols, as it is within the JR/Spektrum world? What I am basically looking for is some sort of "FrSky for dummies" guide that explains the system from the ground up.

 

[Konrad]

NO, NO please don't think DSM2 and DSMX have any commonality with Fr-Sky other than they use the 2.4 gHz rf band!

ACCESS is the new protocol that is not, as of now, fully implemented. (Read; is in the early stages of being rolled out and is having some teething problems, nothing fatal just not a smooth roll out). Of the off brand radios that can best be compared to Fr-Sky's RF protocols it would be Futaba's FASST. I really like Open-TX as it is the closest radio program we currently have to the great Multiplex MC-v2 Profi radio. It is object based programing, little none of this master slave stuff we dealt with other asian radios like Jr, Futaba, etc.

As to how to use the feature packed Fr-Sky products get yourself the manual It is well worth the money even if on the inexplicable chance you don't convert to Fr-Sky. It would be great investment at $15 even if it saves you from buying a radio that might be too advanced right now.

OpenTX Manuals

alofthobbies.com

Also you can get the manuals for the other components here.

PRODUCTS - FrSky - Lets you set the limits

www.frsky-rc.com

All the best,
Konrad

 

[getsuyoubi]

Thanks for the quick response.
I was indeed considering just getting the manual, but the one for the x10s is currently out of stock. I signed up for an alert once it becomes available again.
I understand that FrSky is not compatible with either DSM2 or DSMX; my question was whether ACCST and ACCESS are compatible to each other in a similar way as DSM2 is to DSMX. But maybe I'm still misunderstanding something here. If that's the case, it just shows that I am struggling to wrap my head around it.
I'm still under the impression that FrSky is forever in a beta-testing phase, with new, upgraded/updated stuff being rolled out all the time. The product line in that sense just does not seem to be as "stable" as with Spektrum, Futaba, and others. This impression is probably biased, because people only post their problems and questions in forums, instead of their positive experience.

 

[Konrad]

While I too came from the Spektrum 2.4 world way back in the DSM days. I don't know what you are asking with the ACCST and ACCESS being compatible with each other. Fr Sky has said that the ACCST rx will be upgradable to ACCESS protocols with a firmware update. There Is a push to allow some of the higher end TX to be upgradeable to ACCESS. This will take some hardware upgrades and updates. This is much like what we had to do when DSMX came out. And 15 years later the cost of the ACCESS looks to be close to what we paid for upgrading our DSM2 TX to DSMX $70. Now unlike the Spektrum upgrade where we lost the use of our TX for months. Fr Sky thinks that their user base might be able to perform the upgrade themselves. SO they are offering upgrade kits along with service center support for the change over.

I find that while FrSky is bring a lot of new stuff to market, after about a month or so in the market place the product is stable. So as with any new electrical/software based product "don't be the first upon which the new is tried". I recall having a lot of infant mortality issue and system integration problem when I flew Spektrum. Having used (I still have a DX9 for my HH foamies) both Spektrum and FrSky I can tell you I think FrSky is faster to address customer issues. Does Frsky have more entry into service issue with product than Spektrum? I think so but it isn't a huge difference.

The big killer for Fr SKY is that their manuals are "Sh**!" But the Lother manuals are fantastic, these are not a FrSky product. The poor documentation makes it rather difficult for guys like me that come into the product line expecting (assuming) something works like "XX". Only to find that buried deep in the esoteric manual it says otherwise.

 

[getsuyoubi]

Thanks again for the reply.
"Compatible" was probably the wrong word; what I meant was that (most) DSMX radios can still bind to older DSM2 receivers, so my question was whether an ACCESS radio can also bind to an ACCST receiver, or whether the receiver has to be upgraded to ACCST first. I found it equally confusing that Futaba sells (or at least used to sell) FASST and FASSTeST radios at the same time, and I considered myself lucky that I went with Spektrum at that time.
I guess I should just wait until the x10s manual becomes available again (I guess it's being updated to keep track with newer versions of OpenTX), and then ask whatever questions remain after reading. Otherwise this seems to be endless...;-)

 

[HENNY]

Yes if you purchase an EXPRESS series radio it supports both the ACCST and EXPRESS protocols but not like Spektrum where it will auto detects the receiver type. So with FRsky in model setup you need to tell it which protocol you want. Some older X series receivers may or may not support ACCESS protocols. Personally ACCST has been rock solid, I have never experienced a signal dropout. So many Spektrum users at our field often say I had 2 dropouts after a flight as counted by the receiver orange flash led. ACCESS brings a whole family of new features including wireless binding, the ability to bind to 3 transmitters at the same time, over the air updates and 24 channel transmitter.. Yes you can bind to multiple receivers to be able to get all 24 channels using PWM. Lastly FRsky has a great range of receivers and sensors at one third the cost of Spektrum equivalents. The only downer which does not affect you is the new radios no longer support the V and D series 10 year old design receivers. I have the X10S the pre EXPRESS version and I love it, There is quite a bit of negative views on some of the sites out there re the ACCESS upgrade rolled out by FRsky. Basically I am on the latest version of OPENtx and it is faultless. The X10s comes loaded with Fros (The FRsky operating system) You would need to decide weather you convert to Opentx but I would recommend do it early so you don't have to re learn the whole process a second time. There is plenty of help on Youtube or from your seller. Finally FRsky and Opentx is a new learning curve but once the light goes on you will never look back.

 

[Konrad]

... You would need to decide whether you convert to Opentx but I would recommend do it early so you don't have to re learn the whole process a second time. There is plenty of help on Youtube or from your seller. Finally FRsky and Opentx is a new learning curve but once the light goes on you will never look back.

I can support that statement. I like Open TX and while it will take another 4 to 12 hours for most, to get the light to come on, when moving from the menu driven systems like Spektrum/Jr and Futaba I feel it is well worth the effort.

Also this might be the dummies guide you are looking for. Well, at least for the ACCST to ACCESS transition.

FrSky Advanced Communication Control Elevated Spread Spectrum - ACCESS protocol release! - FrSky - Lets you set the limits

www.frsky-rc.com

All the best,
Konrad

 

[getsuyoubi]

Thanks, that link really helped answering my questions regarding the different protocols. From here I'll just get the manual once it becomes available again, and take it from there. There seems to be no point for me getting the radio before that manual anyway. Thanks again!

 

[Konrad]

As I think about it, that manual is not a selling aid. It only covers how to use OpenTX with the Horus radio.
OpenTx has a program that runs on your computer called "Companion" this has an emulation program that allows you the practice getting familiar with OpenTX.

Welcome to OpenTX

www.open-tx.org

 

[getsuyoubi]

So you are saying that manual is essentially an OpenTX manual, not a Horus x10s manual, meaning it will walk me though the programming aspects but won't answer my dump hardware questions?

 

[Konrad]

There is some hardware stuff specific to the the Horus. But the manual really deals with the power of OpenTX and how to use it.

Most of the hardware stuff ( bearing count, hall effect sensors etc.) is adressed on the Aloft sales page.

 

[getsuyoubi]

By "hardware stuff" I meant questions like how to connect two PWM receivers to get more than 8 channels, or whether it is possible to use 2.4GHz and 900MHz simultaneously for redudancy (like, I think, Jeti does), etc.

 

[Konrad]

The PWM 16 channel output is addressed in the RX manuals. And yes you can use dual RF bands simultaneously. "I" have never understood this practice as being really redundancy.

 

[Hank]

A huge selling feature of the FrSky radios for me is that they still (and may be the only) have both internal RF modules (FrSky) and external RF module bays as well. So, I can use my newer FrSky receivers with the internal RF module or an external RF module like a Hitec, Futabe, or Spektrum or another FrSky module. I have a bunch of older Hitec receivers that I can still use because FrSky has been considerate enough to keep the external RF bays. Also, if the external RF module is also an FrSky module, the number of channels can be extended by binding a receiver to the internal module and another receiver to the external module.

What I did to transition from Futaba to FrSky is to start with cheaper Q X7 and X-9 Lite transmitters. These radios are great because of their low cost while not giving up any real functionality for most users (I don't do drones with a lot telemetry). As far as RF protocols, my X-9 Lite has an external RF module that can support the old V8-series for my old FrSky receivers, but also has the D16 ACCST and ACCESS internally. So, the humble X9 Lite can support all the FrSky Rx variants if needed. That is a lot of capability for such a low-priced TX.

 

[HENNY]

You get a basic manual with any FRsky radio it only shows switch positions etc and has no operational info apart from how to bind receivers. What many people find is FRsky is the hardware and Opentx is the software running on the radio. Much the same way as a HP laptop is the hardware and Windows is the software. If you want operational info you go to Windows, so opentx is the how to. I agree with Hank but I already had an Taranis X9D+ but upgraded to a HORUS because the user interface is so much clearer and the color screen is beautiful even in full sun light along with added hardware and firmware features. Yes the HORUS comes with a JR style module bay allowing a host of plug in transmission modules including a multi protocol module so you could even use your Spektrum receivers if you wanted too.

 

[Wayne]

@getsuyoubi - Yes, you have a number of options to gain access to all 16 or all 24 channels available. You will not see that many simple answers to this question as it really depends on what you are doing. When you start wanting to drive 16 or 25 servos we really need to be very aware of the amp loads of all of those servos and make sure we are addressing that first. The very simple method to get 16 channels is to use 2 X8R receivers, one will output channels 1-8 and the second will output 9-16. This is very simple and easy to do. If you are wanting to fly a very expensive plane I would then suggest an RB (Redundancy Bus) for the job as it will give you all of the channels but also help with dual receivers, dual batteries, and some channel amp limits to protect the entire vehicle should one channel short out. (The bad channel is isolated and allow the rest to keep working. This is much better than taking out all of the channels!)

Yes, you can use dual frequencies. We did just that for an episode of Running Savage when they were driving a trailer with nitroglycerin in a remote area with a ton of RF concerns due to the filming of the show. It worked great! Not like the old Mythbusters days when things just failed to work with their Futaba gear.

All in all there is a lot more options with FrSky. I can honestly say you will not outgrow these radios as they can do just about anything you can think of. Or biggest limitation is typically our own brain and our training to take advantage of the power in these radios.

Hope this helps. The more specifics you give, the better I can assist you.

 

[getsuyoubi]

Thank you very much Wayne!
I fly scale helicopters, which translates to only 4 more or less power hungry servos (scale flying is gentle and smooth). Two other channels are the usual throttle input and gyro gain. In addition there are scale features like lights being switched on and off, cargo hook, winch, etc. Right now I am using 8 channels, but having a 9th or even 10th one would be nice. Of course, that may change at some point...
Since scale helicopters are expensive and have a lot of work invested in them, any type of redundancy would be good for peace of mind - hence my question regarding 900MHz. Can I hook up a 900MHz receiver to a 2.4GHz one, both as an extension beyond 8 channels and for redundancy?

 

[HENNY]

I would not recommend operating dual frequencies as it would require the 900MHz being a module in the rear module bay. Stick to 2.4 or 900MHz not both. As Wayne indicated above there are a number of ways to have really strong redundancy from the redundancy bay FRsky RB20 which will give you 15 PWM channels into which you can plug dual batteries and dual receivers to a simple method using the new redundancy receivers.

 

[getsuyoubi]

I agree that the 900MHz module in the bay is not very pretty, but the only other brand that has such redundancy in a sleeker package is much, much more expensive, as we all know. We had a couple of people using Futaba lose their planes due to signal loss at the field where I fly. All those losses occurred in the same area, and all with Futaba (I fly Spektrum, so I was not affected - but who knows what happens next season), that's why I like the idea of having a completely independent second link.

 

[Konrad]

When I read that the esthetics of the RF implementation is a concern. Then I want to make sure that it is understood that 900 mHz and 2.4 gHz do not make up a fully redundant system. That is because of the different propagation characteristics between both bands they do not have the same coverage for the same power output. Also the lower RF band will have a much lower data cap, this might be a problem. This means that if one band is lost the other might not adequately pick up the load.

But as you did say independent, as in unique data links, you might not actually be looking for a true redundant system.

If moving from Spektrum DSMX you will be much happier with FrSky. I can say that to get any range with my DX9 I have 5 anteenas sticking out of my glider. With the FrSky ACCST I only have 2 anteenas and I have a much stronger RF link.

All the best,
Konrad