Konrad
Very Strong User
Doc,
From my physics' training this will only happen if I loose height. What am I missing?
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From my physics' training this will only happen if I loose height. What am I missing?
I agree with Doc, his airfoil is one of those that seems to like a good pull in the turns. I'm not sure it accelerates in the turn, but probably just more efficient than some other airfoils in a similar turn. Some planes prefer a big lazy turn, and some seem to thrive on a hard pull. I love the planes that like a hard pull.
I think there is something to the silence, but not sure what. I recall my RedShift made noise, but I also never dialed in the plane. I need to get it back into the air and start tuning it in. Mine does have control horns up top, so that may be the source of noise on mine.
Mixing - there is a thing to be said for very simple mixing on our race planes. I am a big believer in this. The racing is already high enough stress, I do not want to add any more with complex mixes that I may not be familiar with. I keep my slope planes VERY simple in terms of mix controls. Might It suggest a simple race switch? When that switch is engaged your are in race mode, it is the primary that cancels any other conditions you may have programmed. Right now you do not need to worry about a bunch of crazy options, just work on the flying and cutting consistent laps. When you can fly super consistent laps, then you can start adding other things and see if they help or hurt. Keep it simple, fly fast.
I think there is something to the silence, but not sure what. I recall my RedShift made noise, but I also never dialed in the plane. I need to get it back into the air and start tuning it in. Mine does have control horns up top, so that may be the source of noise on mine.
Mixing - there is a thing to be said for very simple mixing on our race planes. I am a big believer in this. The racing is already high enough stress, I do not want to add any more with complex mixes that I may not be familiar with. I keep my slope planes VERY simple in terms of mix controls. Might It suggest a simple race switch? When that switch is engaged your are in race mode, it is the primary that cancels any other conditions you may have programmed. Right now you do not need to worry about a bunch of crazy options, just work on the flying and cutting consistent laps. When you can fly super consistent laps, then you can start adding other things and see if they help or hurt. Keep it simple, fly fast.
Konrad
Very Strong User
Yep, I want my plane to fly with as little thinking on my part. I have my race set up with all the switches forward. This is my default racing TX configuration. Now with the advent of the computer radio I try to set up mixes to take off the pilot work load. I have differential so I don't have to manipulate the rudder in the turn (at most speeds). In the case of the under finned Redshift I have a mix to add rudder to aid the ailerons. I have snap flaps to pull the wing through the turn. I have elevator comp on crow to set and hold the proper attitude. Crow is automatic as the "throttle" stick is lowered. So I love advanced mixes.
What I don't want to be doing is flipping switch throughout the heat. That is why I don't have "Pump mode" set up. I try not to flip the switch between Thermal, Normal and Speed modes or even rates. My "climb" mode was a brain fade not checking my TX after I got into the TX harness.
BTW; I love the stability from a dual anchor TX harness.
What I don't want to be doing is flipping switch throughout the heat. That is why I don't have "Pump mode" set up. I try not to flip the switch between Thermal, Normal and Speed modes or even rates. My "climb" mode was a brain fade not checking my TX after I got into the TX harness.
BTW; I love the stability from a dual anchor TX harness.
Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Yes, exactly, the turn is slightly entered high and exited slightly low - but the big help is the push from the wind when you turn, as the entire bottom of the model is presented.
Cheers,
Doc.
Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Konrad the noise normally comes from the wingtips.
My thinking in the design was that this span-wise flow has to go somewhere, so I have tried to make it do what WE want it to do, and not what IT wants to do.
There can be a lot of air exiting in a small area, so that makes a tight vortex which in the case of the Redshift makes a nice (I think) noise.
Cheers,
Doc
Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Gotcha - thats on the straight - correct?
There can also be a high pitched buzz for time to time in the turns.
Cheers,
Doc.
There can also be a high pitched buzz for time to time in the turns.
Cheers,
Doc.
Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Be interesting to fly it from a slope that is quiet. I don't know of one around here. Ortega Highway in Orange County is the best quiet slope I know of, you can hear your servos in the plane. (When there isn't the rare car or motorcycle racing up the canyon.)
Konrad - My mixing solution would have avoided your situation with the "climb" mix. Just monitor one switch for race mode. When race mode is off, then you are in landing mode, or whatever mode you like. But race mode kills all "non-race" modes. To be clear I am not talking about turning off snap flap or differential, those are part of your race mode if that is what you would like.
Konrad - My mixing solution would have avoided your situation with the "climb" mix. Just monitor one switch for race mode. When race mode is off, then you are in landing mode, or whatever mode you like. But race mode kills all "non-race" modes. To be clear I am not talking about turning off snap flap or differential, those are part of your race mode if that is what you would like.
Konrad
Very Strong User
Yes, but those standing by watching the action made comments on how quiet the Redshift was compared to the other F3F racers. I think that says something about the layout.
I see the same fundamental problem. A special switch needs to be in a special condition. I have much the same set up In race mod all my TX switches whether used or not are flipped forward. But somewhere along the path to the cliff face the one switch changed states. and it was the the preset chamber switch So I can even bypass my own idiot proof quick TX set up configuration. With the 2 up flying fromat I didn't notice the mis-rigged ship until I was down, at the cost of 2 heat times.
The shame is that this is showing that I'm still not atuned to the model to really have noticed this rigging problem.
I see the same fundamental problem. A special switch needs to be in a special condition. I have much the same set up In race mod all my TX switches whether used or not are flipped forward. But somewhere along the path to the cliff face the one switch changed states. and it was the the preset chamber switch So I can even bypass my own idiot proof quick TX set up configuration. With the 2 up flying fromat I didn't notice the mis-rigged ship until I was down, at the cost of 2 heat times.
The shame is that this is showing that I'm still not atuned to the model to really have noticed this rigging problem.
Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
On turning, I know its decried in favour of an "Energy Management" turn, but actually there is an awful lot to be said for the good old 90 degree yank and bank system.
Easy to do, its over fast, and it takes full advantage of any wind assistance.
Me...I do it every time if I can.
I know its over 10 years old, but here is good buddy and multiple world champion Pierre Rondel using this method...and he's got smoother...
Doc.
Easy to do, its over fast, and it takes full advantage of any wind assistance.
Me...I do it every time if I can.
I know its over 10 years old, but here is good buddy and multiple world champion Pierre Rondel using this method...and he's got smoother...
Doc.
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Konrad
Very Strong User
I try not to do that style. Rather I'm still doing the 90° level turn, ALA F3D pylon. Now at the coast in a narrow compression zone The fast guys are going much higher in the vertical trying to stay in the compression zone. What they might loose to gravity they more than make up in taking the energy out of that narrow band (2m to 3m wide) of air that is going vertical.
Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Konrad - what I meant WAS the simple 90 degree level F3D turn - I call it "Bank & Yank".
Going right: In slightly high, pretty hard left bank 90-95 degrees over centre, yank the elevator hard to come around, fast right bank to level, maybe headed a couple of degrees down if you got it right.
Going left - same thing.
So maybe is the "95 degree not level turn"!
I dont think I described myself well - sorry.
Doc.
Konrad
Very Strong User
I don't think the control horns are an issue. Mine still has them on the flaps. But I do have good fitting servo covers.
All the best,
Konrad
Konrad
Very Strong User
We held another F3F race today and because of configuration changes to the Redshift that resulted in a lot more programing changes than I anticipated I chose to fly this race with Strega (White and Red). Good thing I did as the air (lift) was spotty at best all day. On my first flight (we have a zero round) I flew into the hill which resulted in a high speed inverted landing on the rock of the face of the hill. There just wasn't any lift and I was trying to catch any compression lift near to the ground. All I caught were weeds and rocks!
I so happy I reinforced the fuselage with a full nose servo tray and carbon bandage near the aft of the wing during the assembly of the model. These bench mods saved the fuselage from breaking.
I need to thank Darrell Zaballos for helping me with the aileron differential and rudder mix trimming. In the end I was actually able to win my first F3F round! (it has been a long time coming, 3 plus years). More to the point I was only 9% away from the top finisher. Normally I'm at the bottom of the score sheet and still 15% away from the next to last place (second from the bottom) finisher.
PS.
I really should thank Mike Retterer for CDing the race. With the poor air he had to make a lot of difficult calls as to postponing some heats.
I so happy I reinforced the fuselage with a full nose servo tray and carbon bandage near the aft of the wing during the assembly of the model. These bench mods saved the fuselage from breaking.
I need to thank Darrell Zaballos for helping me with the aileron differential and rudder mix trimming. In the end I was actually able to win my first F3F round! (it has been a long time coming, 3 plus years). More to the point I was only 9% away from the top finisher. Normally I'm at the bottom of the score sheet and still 15% away from the next to last place (second from the bottom) finisher.
PS.
I really should thank Mike Retterer for CDing the race. With the poor air he had to make a lot of difficult calls as to postponing some heats.
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Konrad
Very Strong User
We did hold our first race of the season on Feb. 20th. Let me say the weatherman couldn't have been more wrong! I was expecting the race to be more of a thermal duration contest as wind speeds were to be in the 12mph to 15mph range. Well the last heat was run with average wing speeds at 34mph and gusts at around 50mph.
Thinking that it was going to be a low wind day I was going to fly my glass ships. That meant my Stregas'. But I had a glass Redshift that I really wanted to fly. As you might know I don't like my Stregas'. As is usual for me I let racing interfere with my test flying. I hadn't maiden my glass Redshift. By 11:00 the winds were in the teens (MPH). So to get the maiden out of the way and maybe in some state of trim I threw her of the cliff! Well, you guessed it there was no lift. By the time I got the fuse and wings trimmed for level flight I was a 1//4 of the way down the hill. I tried to gain some ailtitude but didn't want to add chamber and have to retrim. So I flew my new glass Redshift all the way down into the valley. I'm getting rather good at off field landings, if I do say so myself! There was no damage other than some scraped paint. This just proved to me that it was going to be a light lift day. So I set up Stregas' as they are both glass, and have a bit more wing area than the Redshift, and waited for the race to start.
The first round was a classic scraping for lift affair. I kept everything out of the weeds and rocks to earn a 62 second run. By the 5th round it was looking like I would need to ballast the Strega as the winds had pick up, a lot! Not want to up the wing loading on a Strega when I had a perfectly good carbon RedShift to fly. The problem with this RedShift was that I had badly crashed her at the last race of last season and hadn't found any good air in the last 3 months to test fly her after the repairs. As I was already in the lower half of the standing I figured I had nothing to loose. So again I was letting the race serve as my vehical to test fly. Charlie MacMurray was sitting in the chair and at the end of the heat as I was setting up for my landing I heard him scream at me " Why the heck was I still flying those POS Stregas, when I had the Redshift to fly?" I had to laugh as I was thinking the exact same thing. As switching to the Redshift had dropped my times by close to 10 seconds!
All I can say is no guts no glory! I didn't have any ship that I felt where properly tested to race. So I fell back on what I was comfortable with and what I was willing to damage on the rocks should the lift just drop to zero- the POS Stregas'!
Thinking that it was going to be a low wind day I was going to fly my glass ships. That meant my Stregas'. But I had a glass Redshift that I really wanted to fly. As you might know I don't like my Stregas'. As is usual for me I let racing interfere with my test flying. I hadn't maiden my glass Redshift. By 11:00 the winds were in the teens (MPH). So to get the maiden out of the way and maybe in some state of trim I threw her of the cliff! Well, you guessed it there was no lift. By the time I got the fuse and wings trimmed for level flight I was a 1//4 of the way down the hill. I tried to gain some ailtitude but didn't want to add chamber and have to retrim. So I flew my new glass Redshift all the way down into the valley. I'm getting rather good at off field landings, if I do say so myself! There was no damage other than some scraped paint. This just proved to me that it was going to be a light lift day. So I set up Stregas' as they are both glass, and have a bit more wing area than the Redshift, and waited for the race to start.
The first round was a classic scraping for lift affair. I kept everything out of the weeds and rocks to earn a 62 second run. By the 5th round it was looking like I would need to ballast the Strega as the winds had pick up, a lot! Not want to up the wing loading on a Strega when I had a perfectly good carbon RedShift to fly. The problem with this RedShift was that I had badly crashed her at the last race of last season and hadn't found any good air in the last 3 months to test fly her after the repairs. As I was already in the lower half of the standing I figured I had nothing to loose. So again I was letting the race serve as my vehical to test fly. Charlie MacMurray was sitting in the chair and at the end of the heat as I was setting up for my landing I heard him scream at me " Why the heck was I still flying those POS Stregas, when I had the Redshift to fly?" I had to laugh as I was thinking the exact same thing. As switching to the Redshift had dropped my times by close to 10 seconds!
All I can say is no guts no glory! I didn't have any ship that I felt where properly tested to race. So I fell back on what I was comfortable with and what I was willing to damage on the rocks should the lift just drop to zero- the POS Stregas'!
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Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Konrad
Very Strong User
LOL, but if that is all I have ready to fly I assume it would be better to show up with Strega than to not show up at all. But yes, I need to get my 3 Redshifts set up and ready to race.You need to leave them at home on race days so you'll not be tempted to fly them ever again.
Strega did her intended function. That is show what the basics of F3F was all about. True, these glass examples were horrible. These also showed me what to look for in an F3F ship. As the RCRCM product doesn't have these desired features, I also learned a lot about repair of an F3F ship.
So in my case I actually think my 2 Stregas were a good value. But like Charles said it is time to leave them at home or sport fly them only. While I'm not equipment limited I can notice the better performance of the Redshifts when flown in my hands.
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