What's new
By:
Aloft Forums

Welcome to Aloft Forums. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Getting old! (No guts no glory!)

Konrad

Konrad

Very Strong User
We held our first coastal race in a long time. This was at Thornton Beach. I'd like to thank Miguel Navarro for doing all the work associated with being a CD.
What pains me is that this was the first place I flew an F3F race, and in 3 years my times haven't improved!

The slope at Thornton Beach has a very narrow compression zone. This means that the best lift (energy) is within 2 to 3 meters of the lip. This takes some nerve flying fast so close to the ground. Add to this the lip between the gates varies more than 3 meters and it takes guts to get any speed. I have to admit that I was flying for most of the day about 10 meter out. Not only did I not have any speed but at times I had issue with adequate lift.

I also learned that one needs to trim the ship to the lift. Not just ballast but CG and rates. At the last race (Inland) I added nose weight and was flying about 3 time faster. Here that nose weight and slow speed killed my times. It was pointed out to me late in the race that I was fighting a down trim setting. This was true in that because I had added nose weight to dampen the inland turbulence I was carrying a bit of down trim at speed. At the slower condition this down trim was fighting me. Not something one wants to deal with when 1 meter above the lip. I should have removed the nose weight I added for the inland racing and retrimmed for the slower speeds.

I also need to add more elevator for the slower speeds. Add to these trim issue I was changing ships through out the day and I doomed to be in last place. I flew the Redshift early on hoping to see the speed I saw last week. I changed to the Yellow and Black Strega to help with visibility in the fog. (I was told to go back the the RedShift as It flew so much better). Had to retire the Redshift as a flap control horn failed. (Yes my landings were almost as smooth as glass). And fell back to using my back up Red and White Strega for the rest of the race.

While I'm use to being near the bottom of the pilot standing I don't recall ever looking so bad as being 10+% away from the next closest pilot! Now I blame some of this on my trim settings, but most of the issue was I just didn't have the guts to fly on the ridge!
 
Last edited:
I recommend that folks dump RCGroups!!!

As important as the information is it is also all most as important where one gets one's information. RCGroups has deteriorated from a great resource for the advancement of Electric Flight in the late 90's as a function of the information highway. To a firm that places the position of the sponsor above that of the membership. A classic business to business model we saw in the dead tree press. At least with the dead tree press the contributing authors where paid for their editorial content. We also had a detail manual describing how and what we could discuss. Unlike the loose "what ever" the Tennessee mafia want to suppress!
Then as of late RCGroups is just a click bait sight, focusing on titillation ads and click bait sites. PLEASE EVERYBODY WEAN YOURSELF OFF OF THE RCGOOFS TIT!

I think that with the larger social media outlets it might actually be possible to shut down this despicable site. (Not that the active members are despicable, It is just what the management represents that is distasteful and not in line with the activities and advancement of the hobby!

To your question I belong to the Northern California Slope Soaring Association. This means I'm on their email list.
Then there is this site.
 
Last edited:
My actual issue with rcgroups is not the site itself, i havent noticed any of the stuff you have mentioned, but im coming into it in just the past 7 years so i dont know what it used to be like. My main issue with rcgroups is a large portion of the users. Most discussions quickly turn into arguments over whos process or opinion is right. You can pretty much skip 60% of pages in some posts as they are just squabbles between "experts". That is my rain reason i almost never post. And its also not a very encouraging site for new people in the hobby. IE it has not in my experience been very welcoming to trying thing out for the first time or not doing things correctly cause your just starting out. And a lot of times people will just straight up not even comment in any way at all. Whereas flitetest and aloft forums are much more inviting and welcoming and encouraging for trying non convention stuff and just starting out.

Bookmarked that event page, thanks.
 
As we are some of the main (Non FrSky) posters here. This is my philosophy "There is more than one way to skin a cat" My apologies to the cat! But wrong is wrong. So yes there are black and white issues or process. But there is a huge area of gray. I love changing these areas!

I do think it is a dis-service to not point out potential short coming of a process or action. So while I won't tell you not to do XYZ. I will tell you why I don't like XYZ and what I might think of as a better solution. I hope this helps folks NOT make many of the same mistake I have made. I hope folks will advance further and easier in the hobby than I have.

Ten years ago I had a lot of interaction with the Jims of RCGoofs!
You don't see the click bait ads on the RCGoofs pages? I don't mean the hobby oriented banner adds, but rather the demeaning stuff at the bottom of the page like "You will cry when you see how XYZ looks now"

That event page is for FAI competitions I don't recall fun flies of fly in like Sunset.
 
Nah your fine. You come in and say what the best or most efficient or whatever way it is and people can either take or leave it once your thought is posted. It doesnt go down into some argument if somebody doesnt listen to you.

Im still in the "omg something i made flies" part of the hobby. I file your comments away mentally and at some point when i care more about those types of things ill come back and reread the posts. Like i had to ask @Nigel to explain differential on controls at sunset. never heard of it before. Now i can see why i would want it and will start using it.

Honestly i dont pay any attention to the ads aside from noticing that aloft has some show up no and again.
 
Well, at least our ads show up.. Thinking about killing them..

For me I still like RC Groups, but rarely visit there. When I do it is almost always the glider sections. I hate the radio section, very nasty with a lot of people causing issues . No thanks. The glider section is still the best one going out there that I have found. I really don't care for Facebook even though they have grown some good group pages, I simply do not like how it works there and really don't much care for Facebook in general.

Back on topic - This is the great thing about the slope racing, there is always a ton to learn and try. When you are racing yourself, it is an endless series of adjusting to the conditions. Heck, learning to predict and or read the conditions is a huge part of it.

I had hoped to sneak out to Tick Point on Sunday, but my stucco party went a little too long. :( Will be glad when some of these house projects are cleared off the honey-do list!

As Chris here at the office says: "I call stucco, suck-o..."
 
Well we all post for various reasons. A lot of my posts are to share, meaning a give and take. While I've been at the hobby for 40 plus years I still learn new ways of doing things. I ask a lot of questions not to put anybody on the spot but often to try to understand the concept in greater detail. Like the rear mounting of the V-tail servo in the aft end of the Alpha 2.8m. I was going to mount them into the stab. I liked what Redbird showed mounting the servos to the fuselage and did my copy of that technique.

I also post what I consider flaws in products. Not to show that I can find them, but to help others see and work around them. For example the short control arms of the Redshift. I thought I had a better solution to the problem and work it out. Then there are the issues that often get me in trouble with these forums. That is I pound on what I find as fundamental errors in management or the management of the product. I write these in an effort to help all learn of the problem, but also so the google search brings these issue to the forefront of ones searches.

I don't post to drive or support sales. While this forum is tied to a reseller, Wayne has been the most tolerant of my harping on manufactures (management) to correct their poor engineering and or customer support issues. Short of haveing a long face to face talk over a glass of Cognac with management that wants to correct their issues. I know of no other way to bring this issue of poor management to their attention other than to use google search to make their lives a bit uncomfortable.

I agree with the Facebook comments, I thought there where 1/2 a dozen other social media outlets.

Reading the air IS the biggest part of soaring, be it thermal or slope!
 
Last edited:
Konrad,
As the guy who was that 10% above you on Sunday. Don't sweat it. At one time I was pretty damn good at F3F, even held the American record for about 5 minutes before Craig Toutolmin dropped a WR on us that day at Sierra. Hopefully with some effort I will be 1/2 way decent again in the future but if it doesn't happen NO BIG DEAL, I'll still be laughing at my runs ugly mistakes and all. I highly appreciate the help I'm getting from the faster guys trying to get me back in to shape, even if they didn't I'd much rather hang out with folks enjoying themselves all day long hoping for good results and trying to better their skills and maybe measuring out the risk/reward a bit when they are " feeling it " rather than the guys bitching when the lift just wasn't there for them and openly mad when they aren't perfect and just aren't getting the breaks. You keep doing you, there isn't a damn thing wrong with the grin you got going all day that I have seen.

See ya in a couple weeks
Charlie
 
Pinepig said:
Konrad,
As the guy who was that 10% above you on Sunday. Don't sweat it. At one time I was pretty damn good at F3F, even held the American record for about 5 minutes before Craig Toutolmin dropped a WR on us that day at Sierra. Hopefully with some effort I will be 1/2 way decent again in the future but if it doesn't happen NO BIG DEAL, I'll still be laughing at my runs ugly mistakes and all. I highly appreciate the help I'm getting from the faster guys trying to get me back in to shape, even if they didn't I'd much rather hang out with folks enjoying themselves all day long hoping for good results and trying to better their skills and maybe measuring out the risk/reward a bit when they are " feeling it " rather than the guys bitching when the lift just wasn't there for them and openly mad when they aren't perfect and just aren't getting the breaks. You keep doing you, there isn't a damn thing wrong with the grin you got going all day that I have seen.

See ya in a couple weeks
Charlie
Click to expand...
Beautiful to read...someone flying gliders in competition for the fun of it? Bugger me! I'm grinning so hard its a miracle my head is not falling in my mouth!

Charlie, you mention laughing? you said...ugly mistakes? what on earth are you thinking? It almost looks like you are having...wait for it... fun?...

I mean...what the devilled eggs does the "F" word have to do with the normal silent and steely eyed model glider competitors in this enlightened day and age?

Seriously though,

Its ages since I read something like this. It absolutely restores my confidence that this is not a sport entirely populated by idiots. It tells me that a few of us (other than Konrad) get a buzz out of just being there with the guys, and the models, and the wind, just telling the same old lies, pharting downwind, and flying those wonderful toys.

Thanks, Chaz and more power to ya sir, you have made my day!

Doc - for whom having fun has always been rigidly enforced.
 
I read a lot - post here and there - then do my own thing! I have learned from and shared with most of you on this thread and I am grateful for the inputs - long may it continue!

@thenated0g, I have some foam coming... hot wire time!
 
Charlie it was/is good to see you racing. I've also been seeing a lot of old timers and former USA team members coming back. Like you these guys are fast and or know how to be fast. Just that they haven't flown in a while. This isn't like riding a bike rather it takes some time to build back the skills. Even a novice like myself could see you guys improving at a noticeable rate.

I take this as a good sign for my advancement in that I can at least differentiate a good line from a bad line. Wether I'll ever be able to fly one is another subject.

My philosophy on competition has always been, that it is my job to make you all look good. Somebody needs to take last place or else there isn't a competition. Now I hope that I'm improving and having fun at the same time.

Three years ago I stumbled upon these guys racing at Thornton Beach when I wanted to sport fly. I flew F3D in my day and knew they always need help manning the pylons. So I sucked it up and went down to help. They didn't want my help unless I also flew the race. They worked me in to the rotation told me to goal (tasks). The next 8 rounds was a comedy of errors. But nobody got hurt and I was able to bring back my glider in one piece. (A big accomplishment for me even today)! My best time was 69 or 70 seconds.

Thinking that my little 2.4m Mach 2 was one of the issues for my high times I bought 2 RCRCM Stregas off SoaringUSA's killer 40% deals. These served me well teaching me what to look for in and F3F racer and what not to buy (RCRCM products). I also learned that I wasn't equipment limited. Well, not when it came to dropping my times. I became fed up with the build quality of the Stregas and bought a used Aeroic Redshift thinking that the high aspect ratio wing could only help with my turns. Unfortunately I crashed this ship into the back side at the SLoT before being able to really race her.

With the build quality of the RCRCM products (Strega) I was almost never able to sport fly my 3meter F3F ships. As I was always having to perform major repairs to the airframe.
At the SLoT you saw the results of being able to actually sport fly my racers. I had put on an hour of sport flying time on my Redshift. And was rewarded with my personal best time. (OK, I was still 2nd or 3rd from the bottom in the pilots standings, But I had a new personal best time)!

At last Sunday's Thornton Beach race I was again behind the 8 ball. As I was out of trim and really not prepared as I hadn't flown at Thornton in a long time. I was shocked to learn that my times, even with full size 3meter ships, hadn't improved over my first race at Thornton 3 years earlier! I'm fine with bring up the rear. But being 10% away from the nearest competitor is not what I like to see.

All the best,

Konrad
 
Last edited:
I found this racing action on YouTube. Thanks Scott. Notice the close flying on the ridge lip!
 
Konrad said:
Three years ago I stumbled upon these guys racing at Thornton Beach when I wanted to sport fly. I flew F3D in my day and knew they always need help manning the pylons. So I sucked it up and went down to help. They didn't want my help unless I also flew the race. They worked me in to the rotation told me to goal (tasks). The next 8 rounds was a comedy of errors. But nobody got hurt and I was able to bring back my glider in one piece. (A big accomplishment for me even today)! My best time was 69 or 70 seconds.



At last Sunday's Thornton Beach race I was again behind the 8 ball. As I was out of trim and really not prepared as I hadn't flown at Thornton in a long time. I was shocked to learn that my times, even with full size 3meter ships, hadn't improved over my first race at Thornton 3 years earlier! I'm fine with bring up the rear. But being 10% away from the nearest competitor is not what I like to see.

All the best,

Konrad
Click to expand...
Steve Situm and I were talking about his first race all those years ago this weekend at Thorton, He showed up at Los Banos with a big ol' TD turd on a day we were having a F3F race and we did the same thing to him. He came in dead last, and did so for several races. That english guy that came by for a few on Sunday to spectate and check out planes was the guy that sold Steve Situm his very first F3F plane, a Wizard Compact. He was never much more than a mid pack racer 20 years ago but he had the right attitude and big fat smile every weekend. Look at him now.

It's hard to get any practice in at a competition, you get to fly the course MAYBE 15 minutes the whole day. We need to go out and put some time in the style required for whichever place we are flying. I'd never flown at Thornton and could only hold the lip line maybe 1/3 of the time and then I'd revert to what I know ( knew? ) how to do, big inverted 8s.

I was talking to Steve about getting some time in at the Slot for practice and he mentioned he was up for it, I'll drop you a PM here when our schedules mesh up and I have no doubt we can all work on improvements. It's just time and proper focus.
 
Better yet fly a few. To be truthful it is a bit like watching paint dry if you don't known what is going on. And the best way to learn what is going on it to try to fly the course. No need for a full blown 3 meter F3F ship. Just a good stiff one where you are comfortable being able to place the ship where you want. Many try F3F racing with 60" racers. But I think a good 2+m would be better as a starter. After all bigger flies better, well to a point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
Carbon Falcon Nose dives
Replies
4
Views
404
Wayne
Wayne
Wayne
Free Flight Jetliner RC conversion
Replies
6
Views
907
Wayne
Wayne
Red
Los Banos build thread for everyone
2 3 4 5
Replies
81
Views
7K
Shoelace
Shoelace
M
Obelix Build Log
3 4 5 6 7
Replies
134
Views
10K
Doc J
Doc J
Wayne
From OpenTX to Ethos
Replies
4
Views
2K
Joel17003
J
Back
Top