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FrSky Ethos - A new programming environment is coming!

I don't think that argument of "locking customers in" makes any sense. It's what every other major manufacturer does, and they are not failing. Besides, in the past you were also pretty much "locked in" to OpenTX when you wanted to use FrSky.
 
That was the beauty of the Horus (if one can say it has any beauty) it allowed you to run ether programing philosophy.

I think you could run other OS's like Ersky, on the earlier FrSky radios.
 
True. But any OS "locks you in", unless you are a (OpenTX) developer yourself that can implement what you need and want. In any other case you are always at the mercy of the developers.
 
Konrad said:
Jumper is far worse than FrSky!!! You are correct I'm not a fan boy of FrSky. But I want FrSky to succeed. They have so many innovative products. But almost all of the product fail to some extent at launch, as they lack about another 20% commitment needed from management. Again we have covered this many times but mainly it is in the corporate structure and the lack of any validation procedure.

Here with Ethos I can see, if one follows any of the FrSky history, where in FrSky's typical fashion they will introduce a product (a software) and it will in all likelihood fail. It is the classic definition of insanity to keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different out come.

I haven't seen any details as to what Ethos really is. But as it is coming from the FrSky, and I have no reason to think there has been any changes to the corporate structure of FrSky, I'm confident it will fail.

In fact I see where FrSky is destroying their relationship with the customer. It appears that they are trying to destroy any customer service they had from with their dealer network. You can see that in Europe and in the Americas FrSky is trying to sell direct to the customer undercutting their established dealers with their HorusUSA site. Like Horus and FrSky are separate, my A$$!

FrSky is not equipped to deal with the onslaught of customer issues that will fall out as a result of this new software. That is a given no matter how good Ethos is.

Based on what I see from a distance, Ethos is still born, if FrSky stays with their current structure. I point to how poor and how long it has taken to straighten out the ACCST mess. Now add to the mix customers trying to interface with the program such as an OS. ACCST was just a flashing problem from the customer perspective. A new OS will crush FrSky.

I'm sorry say that history and the current activity all point to this effort (Ethos) being doomed from the beginning. Without a customer service program FrSky will collapse. We the customer can get the same level of frustration from Jumper and for 15% less money!

I hope that there are still folks that can give input to FrSky from the customer's perspective. I don't know how FrSky is making their decisions, but I want to offer my perspective. That is don't throw out the baby with the bath water. The real power of FrSky has been OpenTX. That is keep the mixer based programing! And get your (FrSky's) engineering house in order! This is the wrong time to introduce a new OS. FrSky has failed time and time again to get any software program up and running that minimizes the strain on the customer. FrSky please learn to write, integrate and validate code using some less critical program. Once they have learned and demonstrated this, then think of moving up to OS systems.

FrSky WILL destroy what little is left of their innovative reputation when they introduce another faulty software program! FrSky is one failure away from oblivion. It's not the clones it is their internal culture that will doom FrSKy.
Click to expand...

Konrad

I have been having issues with my trackpad making my cursor jump around and delete text so I am not surprised that this made no sense…

I am composing on a word processor now so hopefully I can use undo..

I agree with you on nearly every point you have made.

Frsky has, since their design of accst and Taranis, not really done too much very well…. Their suddenly discovered bug in ACCEST and upgrade looks just too close to an attempt to hinder the success of cloners to not be that… And now ETHOS and new hardware with no support for Opentx….
I have been in Tech for too many years not to recognize when a business is trying to lock a customer into their product lines… It is clear to me that Frsky has decided to spend their r&D money in an attempt to lock in customers instead of innovation which has in the past been their forte…. I have seen many Tech firms go the “forget innovation, Let’s go with locking customers into our products” route this usually begins their decline to irrelevance

I have not bought into Jumper/radiomaster products out of loyalty to frsky, despite their complete unwillingness to provide any type of customer support. I have a friend who asked how, if he purchased a Frsky Trans, he could get it repaired…. The only answer I came up with was.. I can fix it for you…. I know that Aloft will do hardware repair, but not being able to call them would be a definite no go for him….. And to some level me too….

I am having a hard time bragging on frsky any more.. It is actually Opentx that I love… I personally found that, though there is a willingness to help, even Aloft isn’t really providing much… I have been having trouble getting the new S series archers to initialize properly, going to the extent of creating videos of the process I am using. No one from Frsky has commented or discussed with me… no way to call… I actually tried to arrange for someone from Aloft to call me and work me through it… (I am nearly sure that I am dealing with a bug,) but no admission from either source…. Aloft response was NO one here uses that feature.. REALLY? To me the ability to set up a plane to failsafe to straight and level with power down of thrust is WAY cool, and I cannot see why anyone would NOT be interested…. That said. This to me indicates just how bad the customer service end of Frsky is. If Aloft could call Frsky and get an answer from them… Their response would have been different.


I think I am going to forgo the Tandem series and buy into Radiomaster. I will get no support from them either, but at least I am not being at this point “Locked in” by them.

I have had it UP to HERE (finger pointed at top of head) with trying to defend Frsky.
I am not likely to buy ANY new radio product which will not run Opentx… If someone announces that the Tandems will support Opentx, Then I might buy… I am sorry to see Frsky do this….

While ranting, has anyone tried playing with the ESC products yet? Great promise, no support and using a 3rd party product required to do anything but default settings.
 
I understand your frustration. But I'll tell you jumping to Radiomaster is not the answer. In fact you are likely to find even more frustration with Radiomaster.

The new Ethos OS is looking to be a good compromise, using menus and the flexibility of object based programing.

As to the new Neutron ESC they are nice. But are feature packed with the Heli32 software package. This can be very powerful but also very frustrating as many of the feature's nomenclature don't make it clear as to their actual function. But the power of the firmware is worth the up front head aches.

The ACCST bug was bad timing. It is a real reliability/safety bug. I've suffered a few hits that I can attribute to it with 95% confidence. I've also had a few more that I'm 80% confidant where as a result of this bad data packet pass through.

So despite the timing please do up grade all your ACCST RF equipment to v2.1.xx. Please note that there is also a corresponding upgrade for the clone breaking ACCeSS protocol.

Sounds like a lot of your issue are with FrSky (mine also are with FrSkY). Aloft as the retailer has bent over backwards to help me at every turn. But they are the retailer and as such don't have the resources that the OEM should. Actually Aloft have more customer support resources than FrSky does as they have been dealing with the end user for far longer than any of FrSky's direct sales outlets have.

So while I'm willing to throw FrSky under the bus, I hold Aloft in high esteem as a vendor of choice when it comes to customer service. But they can't work miracles.
 
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2MUCH2DO said:
So there was some talk earlier in the thread about why frsky is a bit falling behind in radio sales etc.., mainly why it appears they are loosing out to clones. As has been said OpenTX has alot to do with this, but there is more. I think that the multi-modules have been FAR undersold in this thread. Remember that the leading things sold in the hobby industry now are BNF toys. If you can't talk DSMX you are missing out on way too much, and so people go and jump on Jumper and Radiomaster. I really like the diversity antennas on The Horus, but it can only fly 15% of my models, and I can't change out receivers on UMX items. I'm just using myself as an example, but honestly I think that is a massive advantage that FRSky needs to make sure and include with their new system and it looks like it may have been excluded by changing the module interface. Even if Ethos is amazeballs, it just isn't gonna be in the cards if I can't put a multi-module in the back for the rest of my toys.
Click to expand...
Hobbyking sells a module to do dsmx\2 that works in taranis
 
Konrad said:
I understand your frustratioan. But I'll tell you jumping to Radiomaster is not the answer. In fact your are likely to find even more frustration with Radiomaster.

The new Ethos OS is looking to be a good compromise, using menues and the flexibility of object based programing.

As to the new Neutron ESC they are nice. But are feature packed with the Heli32 software package. This can be very powerful but also very frustrating as many of the feature's nomenclature don't make it clear as to their actual function. But the power of the firmware is worth the up front head aches.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response... That said... I am not buying a new radio anytime soon... I help a lot of beginners in the RC field and honestly I do NOT get why opentx is considered more complex than Spektrum or Futaba.... They both try and hide the complexities, thus making it REALLY hard if not impossible to do anything other than same buttons and switches for the same function no matter what you want... And now with AS3X stuff. the young'ns..(newbs really) try and move the receiver from one plane to another or try and use a servo they picked up somewhere which rotates the opposite of the original and they crash because they have no knowledge of how it all configures.

I digress.... I will see about the Tandems... I have a Horus which has OPENtx but I don't use often because it is hard to see the screen on sunny days. Maybe the tandem is brighter..... but It would be hard for me to justify spending 300 dollars on a product that does not run Opentx. We just our night fly and I set my lights up using 3 optical switches and a second receiver bound to my taranis on channels 13 14 and 15 each with multiple settings for flash rates and combinations thereof, and ON and off ....... THAT SPEKT RUMMIES
 
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I was pretty disappointed when the X20 was announced sans OpenTx. More recently, there's been public confirmation that FrSky is dropping OTX entirely. Presumably that means going forward, not retroactively.

While disappointing, FrSky's move from OTX is not surprising. Even before the Jumper fiasco, the signs were there to be read. Post Jumper, I don't see how FrSky could have continued with OTX and remained innovative. The story includes unintended consequences, greed, and betrayal. But the problem in ACCST D16v1 is real. I'm convinced that I experienced it multiple times, including once leading to a crash.

I'm keeping my eye on how EthOS shapes up. Once it has a PC app similar to Companion it becomes a candidate for me. I'm not sure that I'm entirely happy about the looming deprecation of ACCST receivers. What can you do?
 
Landru said:
I was pretty disappointed when the X20 was announced sans OpenTx. More recently, there's been public confirmation that FrSky is dropping OTX entirely. Presumably that means going forward, not retroactively.

While disappointing, FrSky's move from OTX is not surprising. Even before the Jumper fiasco, the signs were there to be read. Post Jumper, I don't see how FrSky could have continued with OTX and remained innovative. The story includes unintended consequences, greed, and betrayal. But the problem in ACCST D16v1 is real. I'm convinced that I experienced it multiple times, including once leading to a crash.

I'm keeping my eye on how EthOS shapes up. Once it has a PC app similar to Companion it becomes a candidate for me. I'm not sure that I'm entirely happy about the looming deprecation of ACCST receivers. What can you do?
Click to expand...
I will say that Ethos with its touch screen pretty much 100% removes the need for companion. Im now MUCH faster just doing it on the radio than I ever was with OpenTX, and honestly I'm not sure I care if there is ever a companion. The exception to this might be a radio like the taranis Lite, I'm not sure how they could get its UI to be on par. I still miss the multi-module, and I have kept a radio around for the BNF toys, but I do have a "Lite module" drawn up to 3d print that would be for the lemon TX DIY module.
 
Yes, I can see that being a perfectly good option for many users, perhaps even most.

In my case, my standard 7-channel glider template relies on some fairly complicated programming, for example to allow the left stick to control throttle, flaps, camber, or crow depending on flight modes and other logical conditions. I'm not sure I could have programmed and debugged any of that without Companion. And, truth be told, once I experienced programming on the PC, I lost the desire to program anything on the radio except perhaps a few variables set aside for tuning at the field.

No doubt there are other options with EthOS even for someone like me, using Mike Shellim's capable glider templates, to name one. However, I'm not in a rush to go in a direction that I've already considered and passed by.

But to each his own, of course. Plus, a Companion app has been promised for EthOS so I haven't closed the door.
 
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Landru said:
Yes, I can see that being a perfectly good option for many users, perhaps even most.

In my case, my standard 7-channel glider template relies on some fairly complicated programming, for example to allow the left stick to control throttle, flaps, camber, or crow depending on flight modes and other logical conditions. I'm not sure I could have programmed and debugged any of that without Companion. And, truth be told, once I experienced programming on the PC, I lost the desire to program anything on the radio except perhaps a few variables set aside for tuning at the field.

No doubt there are other options with EthOS even for someone like me, using Mike Shellim's capable glider templates, to name one. However, I'm not in a rush to go in a direction that I've already considered and passed by.

But to each his own, of course. Plus, a Companion app has been promised for EthOS so I haven't closed the door.
Click to expand...
I totally understand, I'm using my X20 for F3F gliders, and still, its much faster using just the radio than I ever was with the OpenTX companion. And you can see the results instantly.
 
So after all my bitching... I now find out I can download Ethos and run in on my Horus..... This allows me to see how if looks and feels.... I think maybe I will.... maybe I will fall in love AGAIN
 
Hey guys - Thought I would chime in with a few tid bits..

Is FrSky leaving OpenTX? Yes and No. I think their next radio due to be released will be on OpenTX. Then the next 2 radios I'm aware of will be Ethos. I do not think there will be much demand for the OpenTX radio based on its specs. The 2 Ethos radios I expect good sales as they will be breaking new ground IMHO. I suspect they will also enjoy good commercial/industrial sales, outside of the hobby. Sorry can not go into details at this time.

Why is FrSky leaving OpenTX? Well, it is a long story, but ultimately some OpenTX developers (especially the one linked above) have been openly hostile towards FrSky. The drama this has caused has been very destructive and disruptive to business at FrSky. I think this is pretty common with Open Source Projects s that are teamed up with manufacturers for the hardware. The goals of the 2 groups are poorly aligned and almost always ends up in a breakdown. OpenTX and FrSky held together for a very long time, they occasional had issues with one another that needed some help to iron out, it was almost always trust issues with one another. It is not an easy balance, but both groups did work well together. Ultimately I think it fair to say that the goals no longer aligned.

Ethos - Needless to say, I am a long time OpenTX user and like OpenTX just fine. With this said, I really am impressed with Ethos. My next radio will for sure run Ethos. For now I'm sticking with my X7S and X-lite S, but I already know what radio I will replace both of them with, and it runs Ethos.

Some comment on the lack of a Companion like app for their computer to talk with Ethos is an issue. I generally program OpenTX with the assistance of Companion when starting to program a new model, and then do the fine tuning in the transmitter. This gives me quick access to change things and a keyboard to type things. With Ethos, it is already a very fast programming environment, and it has a touch keyboard, so the needs I used to have are pretty much gone. The other thing Companion is pretty good about is allowing me to copy model memories from one radio to a different one, this is yet to be tested in Ethos, but I sure hope they have built in some standards so the entire conversion process is no longer needed. I know this is something I requested early on. (Pretty sure this is something Er9X has always had as well as many other radio systems out there.) This has always been a weakness in OpenTX. Can it be done? Yes, but it is messy.

With Ethos FrSky is free to go in new directions that the OpenTX team were either not willing or were slow to adopt. And you know what, OpenTX is free to do things at their pace and in the directions they want to go. It goes both ways.

This was not an attack on the clones. Yes, the clones have done considerable damage to FrSky, no one should question that, and yes if FrSky was going to survive they could not continue to do business as usual. The clones could simply copy the FrSky hardware and they could run OpenTX on those radios with little to no expense. With Ethos, they no longer have that option. Not only do the cloners have no real engineers, they do not have any software or hardware people capable of duplicating FrSky's work on the Tandem series of radios. FrSky did what they do best, they innovated and left the clones in the dust to sell yesterday's stolen hardware.

Did they have any choice? What would you do in the same situation?
 
Hi Wayne, those are some very helpful insights from someone who knows much more about goings-on than most of us here. Perhaps even all of us.

I hope I haven't come across as a hard case. In fact, I have very considerable sympathy for FrSky's position.

I also have great admiration for OpenTx. But I do question the decision to hitch the OTX wagon to the MPM project. For sure, I understand that Open Source access to a boatload of protocols is a pretty neat idea. Where I part company with a lot of users -- and possibly all of the OTX devs -- is in thinking that such a scheme will be free from fallout. Perhaps I'm simply wrong. In any case, it's water under the bridge. The last thing I want is to inflame the passions of people whose work I admire and have benefited from greatly.

From RCG, I know that FrSky is pursuing ErskyTx for the X20. Is that considered safe because ErskyTx occupies too small a niche to provide any traction for cloners? Nobody wants to go through this mill again, I'm sure.

Best,
Andrew
 
question to the forum I got a couple of X10s from and they are running horus. I want to upgrade to ethos but the X10s did not come with an sd card so I am not sure where I can get those files from. Do any one have the files that come on the a X10s with ethos?
 
Search for Installing ETHOS on Horus X10S/X10 Express on this RCG page and you'll see full instructions for installing EthOS on the X10:

FrSky - X20 (S, HD), X20R (RS), X20 Pro (AW) Tandem - 24 Channels with ETHOS - RC Groups

New Product FrSky - X20 (S, HD), X20R (RS), X20 Pro (AW) Tandem - 24 Channels with ETHOS Radios
www.rcgroups.com www.rcgroups.com

If you're just looking for the files, I believe they can be found by clicking on the appropriate radio type here:

Ethos – a thoroughly upgraded new operating system

ethos.frsky-rc.com ethos.frsky-rc.com

There's also an instructional video available at the second link. I haven't watched so can't comment.

Hope that helps.
 
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