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FAA's new Remote ID and our glider sites!

Wayne

Administrator
Staff member
Quick summary of the FAA Remote ID (RID) requirements are that we will need to carry a RID module in our models in about 3 years from today. But they made an exception for us, if we fly from a FRIA (FAA Recognized Identification Area) we don't need to have this RID module, we get to continue to fly like we are today!

But there is a catch, we need to get our sites listed as FRIA locations. While for many flying clubs that are part of the AMA, I suspect this will be pretty much automatically done. (Assuming the FAA allows the AMA to add all of their existing club fields.) The concern I have will be all of the slope glider sites and even contest sites that are not normal club sites, these often times are not part of the AMA or any other group.

As an example, when you look at slope soaring sites along the west coast (California, Oregon, Washington) I think there are only 2 or 3 sites that the AMA covers. Those are Torrey Pines in San Diego, and Davenport, Ca. Maybe there is one or two others. I personally have flown probably 40 or 50 slopes in California, and a few more in Oregon. And those are only the coastal sites!

This is the odd thing about glider sites, often times there is no club or organization of the pilots that use the site even though the sites are well known and have been flown at for 50 or 60 years! Some have local agreements with the land owners, others are just historic and nothing else is in place. \

I would like to discuss ideas on getting this sites accepted into the FRIA program so we can continue to enjoy these sites without any added equipment.

Or perhaps it is a bad idea to even try..? Do we want to alert others to the locations of our slope soaring sites? With the environment movement trying to restrict access to many places, this may just put our sites onto a list for legal closures. We have seen a new wave of this recently in California. The newest method seems to be to report that the site has endangered Raptors and our models may upset the hunting and feeding. We recently lost access to a local slope for exactly this reason, and another has seen the same attack attempted but we managed to avoid it when it was shown we had no raptors at the slope.

I suspect there will be 2 or 3 organizations that will be granted the ability to suggest FRIA sites, AMA is expected to be one of them, but you never know with the FAA. I think there will be one that targets drone pilots, and maybe a third for industry??

Would love to hear from others. These 3 years will blow by very fast, and the FAA will be very slow to work with.
 
From what they were saying during the AMA summary cast they had the other day, we should be able to have a single device registered to an individual that could be moved from aircraft to aircraft. I would like to see what the reality is regarding this "$20-$50 postage stamp size" piece of equipment is. If it is in fact a small and inexpensive device that I can easily move between aircraft then flying at any random site should be no problem. Unless I am misinterpreted what they were talking about.
 
I had suggested to the FAA last year that someone should make an APP that you can just turn on when you are flying that reports to air traffic and to give a 1/2 mile bubble around your area or whatever. But having a device in your plane that you would have to switch to other planes sounds like a bit of a pain. I usually bring 3-5 planes out when I go fly and some of them are a real pain to take the wing off and on (like a SRTL) to get to the battery area.
 
I had suggested to the FAA last year that someone should make an APP that you can just turn on when you are flying that reports to air traffic and to give a 1/2 mile bubble around your area or whatever. But having a device in your plane that you would have to switch to other planes sounds like a bit of a pain. I usually bring 3-5 planes out when I go fly and some of them are a real pain to take the wing off and on (like a SRTL) to get to the battery area.
The APP would be a solution for folks who fly DLG gliders with zero room for additional electronics.
 
Theoretically you could have something the size of a bind plug that would plug into the rx and add Id info to the telemetry stream. Even simpler would be to revise the rx firmware to be programmed with the Id.
 
Maybe a really small rechargeable device we can tape onto our plane on the outside somewhere. Easy enough to switch from plane to plane without having to buy one for all the 30 plus planes us normal fliers have Hahahahaha. ?
 
@Wayne off topic to your fria discussion kind of but i would think that frsky would start supplying these modules built in to Rx's at some point in future dont you think?
 
Yes, this is possible. The manufacturers should be able to do this, build them right into our receivers.

I originally balked at the suggestion these items could be super small based on the GPS antenna, but seems an antenna can be as little as 10x10x3.8mm also found one that was 9x9x6.5mm. So looks more promising.

2460-03.jpg
 
the device doesn't need to have any connection to the frsky data it just needs power to transmit on whatever frequency the faa wants it on. Its more about the convenience of having a single small unit in your planes.
 
It will be on 2.4ghz. FAA defines it as an unlicensed band that smart devices can receive. I'm not aware of any other bands that a smart device can monitor.

Yes, I think both our telemetry AND the FRIA requirements can be met at the same time. Our telemetry may be downgraded to make room for it though.
 
Yeah, since telemetry channels aren’t all based on the same protocols. That’s not gunna work.
You mean the individual FrSKY telemetry or FrSKY vs Spektrum? If just the latter, that may work just fine, as the FAA doesn't specify a protocol, just that it has to be non-proprietary and operate in an unlicensed band that personal smart devices can monitor.

It will be on 2.4ghz. FAA defines it as an unlicensed band that smart devices can receive. I'm not aware of any other bands that a smart device can monitor.

Yes, I think both our telemetry AND the FRIA requirements can be met at the same time. Our telemetry may be downgraded to make room for it though.
My iPhone 12 Pro has WiFi 6, which means in addition to 2.4 GHz it also operates in the 5 & 6 GHz range for WiFi, which is also unlicensed. Additionally it has an ultra-wideband (UWB) radio they use for directional rangefinding (Apple tags) and while they don't list the technical specs of this, the FCC authorized the unlicensed (part 15) usage of 3.1-10.6 GHz for communication and measurement devices using UWB. From what I've read it seems likely the UWB chip in the iPhone can operate over all or most of this range (Samsung high-end phones also have UWB). So as written, 2.4 GHz and 3.1-10.6 GHz would all work, since they are available on personal smart devices and unlicensed.

So plenty of options for transmitting the RemoteID info. Unfortunately, since I do not agree with most of the RemoteID rule as written. Just found out about this Monday. I was flying my Turbo Timber UMX the other night at a local park, and a couple saw me fly it and asked some questions. They had received an airplane from a friend who built it during COVID but didn't fly, asked if they wanted it. They had never flown, so I encouraged them to look for a local club who could offer training. I also gave them my phone number cause I figured they may be more likely to ask me for help than join a club, and I know that trying to fly a new airplane by yourself is likely to end in a crash pretty quick. But I got home and was reviewing the requirements for registration, then stumbled on this RemoteID stuff. I just thought about being that couple with kids, having an airplane that you may want to fly, but immediately getting turned off if you have to take a course, register the airplane, get a RemoteID device and register it, or your airplane wouldn't even fly. I figured if I was starting the hobby in a year or two once RemoteID is a thing, I may not do it simply because of the hoops I had to jump through to get into it and be legal. It certainly is going to be a detriment to the hobby.
 

I linked to minute 34:08 as Josh had a interesting take on the FRIA stuff. He says their is no limit on the number of frias and they are interested in helping people get parks and even backyards setup as these areas. So be cool to do our slope sites.
 
What is the status of Frias? If we can't get sites approved, then I see no way for me to follow the guidelines.
 
@Konrad no idea, heres the link, power is probably not much. Seems like most of it is a gps rx and bluetooth tx

@Wayne from the few videos i have seen it doesnt seem like any frias are getting approved yet at all.
 
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