Ethos Asymmetrical expo on elevator

[Baggers50]

Just switched to Ethos from OTX, this may have been asked before but I'm trying to set my rates switch so that for full, med and low rates on Elevator I can have different expo for up/down ie 25% for down % 30% for up. This was very easy to do in OTX but I'm struggling to see an easy way to do this. Thanks

 

[gnichola]

@Baggers50 can I ask how you got this in OTX?

 

[jure]

I wonder if this feature could be implemented with curves ...

 

[Baggers50]

@Baggers50 can I ask how you got this in OTX?

Hi when you go into dual rates & expo there is a box at the very bottom thats says stick direction

 

[MikeB]

In an Elevator mix, you may set more than one weight value. The default weight is 100%. Now add a second weight with a condition:
Category - Direction
Value - Left
and set the value to 0 (zero).
The graph will now show 100% weight on one side and 0% on the other.
Repeat for a second Elevator mix but choose the Direction as Right.
You now have two, Elevator mixes, assign the same output channel to both. One mix applies to one direction and the other to the other direction.

For the Expo I suggest you use two Vars, Var1 and Var2. Use Var1 as the source for the expo value in the first Elevator mix and Var2 for expo in the second Elevator mix.
Configure each Var so the value depends on the position of a switch. Suppose you want expo values of 30%, 20% and 10% when Switch A is up, middle and down. Set the value of Var1 to 30%. Now add another value with condition SA- and a value of 20%, then add a third value with condition SAv and a value of 10%.
Repeat with Var2 using the required expo values for the other direction of the elevator.

Done.

Mike

 

[gnichola]

Yeah, so there is probably a simpler way, but this works, I think. First a pair of logical switches to indicate up vs. down.

Then create a pair of expo curves, one for you up and one for your down. Each will be symmetrical, but that is ok.

Then in the curve section, skip the first item as you don't want a default, but instead you want individual up/down expo each activated by its associated logical switch.

 

[Wayne]

For OpenTX:

R

Post in thread 'F3F radio set ups (OpenTX)'

Jun 26, 2022

I also learned of the concept of asymmetrical expo. That is while one might have a large Expo value for up elevator. Many have a curve for the down input (forward) stick much closer to a linear response. This is done to allow a fast response when bunting a turn (going slightly inverted to avoid a cut). [...] I'm using a 9 point curve where I try to emulate the shape of a high expo number in the up direction.

FYI: I'm using Mike Shellim's F3F templets with a X9E using OpenTX 2.2.4.

Here's a cleaner, more flexible method without the need for custom curves. It gives you...

• RC-Soar

• 

 

[Baggers50]

In an Elevator mix, you may set more than one weight value. The default weight is 100%. Now add a second weight with a condition:
Category - Direction
Value - Left
and set the value to 0 (zero).
The graph will now show 100% weight on one side and 0% on the other.
Repeat for a second Elevator mix but choose the Direction as Right.
You now have two, Elevator mixes, assign the same output channel to both. One mix applies to one direction and the other to the other direction.

For the Expo I suggest you use two Vars, Var1 and Var2. Use Var1 as the source for the expo value in the first Elevator mix and Var2 for expo in the second Elevator mix.
Configure each Var so the value depends on the position of a switch. Suppose you want expo values of 30%, 20% and 10% when Switch A is up, middle and down. Set the value of Var1 to 30%. Now add another value with condition SA- and a value of 20%, then add a third value with condition SAv and a value of 10%.
Repeat with Var2 using the required expo values for the other direction of the elevator.

Done.

Mike

Many thanks will give it ago

 

[Baggers50]

Yeah, so there is probably a simpler way, but this works, I think. First a pair of logical switches to indicate up vs. down.
View attachment 24045

Then create a pair of expo curves, one for you up and one for your down. Each will be symmetrical, but that is ok.
View attachment 24046

Then in the curve section, skip the first item as you don't want a default, but instead you want individual up/down expo each activated by its associated logical switch.
View attachment 24047

thanks will give both methods a try

 

[Baggers50]

thanks will give both methods a try

just had a quick look into this but it only seems to work as one setting rather than being able to assign a three position switch with three seperate values, where you would assign the switch in the curve mix that option is taken up by controlling the logical switches. I think..

 

[gnichola]

Here is the mix page with both differential expo and multi-rates.
In the case shown, the default rate is 100%, switch A in mid sets rate to 60% and switch A down sets rates to 40%. In all 3 rates, the same expo values are applied, which is what I thought you wanted.

 

[gnichola]

@Baggers50 Wait, I think I misunderstood your question. I thought you wanted a fixed pair of up/down expos, like 30 & 25. And then separately, you wanted multiple rates. That is what the above gives you.
Do you want different expos at for each rate?

 

[Baggers50]

@Baggers50 Wait, I think I misunderstood your question. I thought you wanted a fixed pair of up/down expos, like 30 & 25. And then separately, you wanted multiple rates. That is what the above gives you.
Do you want different expos at for each rate?

hi, yes its the different expo and rates I was after all on a three way switch. it seems a very complicated work around for something most radios have as standard including OTX. Most aerobatic pilots like to have more down elevator than up even if it is only a few percent and the same with expo. and also be able to easily adjust it at the field. Think i need a few more months of understanding ethos before i finally swap transmitters.

 

[MikeB]

I suggest you investigate how to use Vars, they are very useful. As an example, here is how to use a Var to implement three expo values on an elevator mix.
First set up the Var to provide the three settings, here based on the position of switch SA. If SA is UP, then the Var will have the default value (of 60%), if SA is in the middle then the Var takes the second value (here 40%) and for SA down, the third value (here 20%). I've named the Var as ELEXPO.

Now just add an expo curve to the Elevator mix, select "Use Source" and then choose VAR and ELEXPO as the value.

One reason why Vars are useful would be if you have two, aileron channels and you want two apply the same expo or rate values to both channels. Just define a Var with the rate/expo values, then use the same Var in both channels. You now have just one place where the rate/expo values need changing rather than having to edit two mixes.

Miike

 

[gnichola]

Vars and logical switches. I (almost) never assign anything directly to a switch, but instead create a logical switch. This way if I change my mind about the switch, or change to a different model radio, I have one place to go to change my switch mappings.

Combining logical switches with Mike's Var idea, you get the following, where the logical switch is used for changing the rate. If you have different rate values for ailerons or rudder vs. your elevator, you would create a new Var using the same logical switch trigger. If then you decide you want to move the rates to switch B, you only need to go to the logical switch, and everything that is tied to that switch will be magically adjusted.

Then your final elevator mix would look like:

 

[Baggers50]

I'm still abit confused need to do some study as you say. I still dont see from this how you would combine it so that it works for posative & Negative stick positions. this is how i have it set up in OTX.

 

[MikeB]

I thought you wanted different expo values as well as different rates depending on a switch, however your setup in openTx shows you have a fixed expo value, just different for each direction.
In Ethos, you don't have inputs, you use mixes instead.
Also, in each mix you specify which output channel the mix affects.
Importantly, if you specify more than one mix with the same output channel, the mix results are added together.
So for your requirement you need two mixes affecting the elevator channel, one configured for up elevator and the second for down elevator.
The up elevator mix just needs to output 0% for the down elevator direction and the down elevator mix just needs to output 0% for the up direction.
A quick way to configure this in a mix is to set the Diff values of the two mixes to 100% and -100%.

I still recommend you use a Var to set the weights (rates). You create a Var for the weights, we have both shown how to set up a Var to provide this.

By the way, the processing of an Ethos mix is different from the openTx processing of an input.
openTx goes through the input lines and stops at the first valid line.
Ethos goes through the mix entries for curves and weights etc. and applies all valid entries in order.

Mike

 

[gnichola]

In my post from 9:02 yesterday I showed the basics, so check those images, but the basic gist is:

1. Setup two curves, one for each expo value you want.
2. Setup two logical swithes
   1. Up - is active when the elevator is < 0
   2. Dn - is active when the elevator is > 0
3. The elevator mix sets 2 curves, expo up and expo down. Each of the curves is active only when the logical switch is active, so as you move your elevator up/down you will switch between the two expos.

Here is a link to a short video of it all...I hope you can view it https://1drv.ms/v/c/8395f00df85c4df7/EXhRmsnUVjtHredxMbql2tgB1IFbfTiSFhlO-uVizfltmQ

 

[Baggers50]

Thanks Guys