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ECHO Slope Wing

Hey @Wayne What materiel are you using for the new spinners and other parts you were showing us at Sunset? The stuff that sounds like metal when you throw it on the shop floor? lol. Is it CF filament?
If i create a one piece tail for this can I have you guys 3D print the tail and internal spars and other parts from that materiel? Certainly willing to pay for them. Either that or I'll upgrade my new P1S to be able to print CF filament if that is the stuff you are using.
 
The planform of the wing you are using is really a result of what can be hot wire cut, if you have not progressed yet, I'd suggest changing the planform to be more curvy. This will probably teach you some new CAD skills, lofting with guides. In other words make it more like a blended wing.

a5965323-104-Gizmo.jpg

Never played with Onshape, but if they have an airfoil option, I'm sure they will allow you to add your own airfoils to it. Or just loft your own bodies.

Might I suggest this airfoil:

I'm eager to try it on some wings. (It might suck, but his other airfoils are pretty sweet.)
 
Hey @Wayne What materiel are you using for the new spinners and other parts you were showing us at Sunset? The stuff that sounds like metal when you throw it on the shop floor? lol. Is it CF filament?
If i create a one piece tail for this can I have you guys 3D print the tail and internal spars and other parts from that materiel? Certainly willing to pay for them. Either that or I'll upgrade my new P1S to be able to print CF filament if that is the stuff you are using.
Yes, it has some carbon fiber in it, but it is beyond a simple CF filament. No, I don't think you would want to pay for it, it is about $280 for a full spool. Also, it might be too brittle for that application.

Check out the PETG filaments. I think they offer good qualities for your project. Affordable, print really well, can handle some heat, and very affordable. By all means, pick Rafael's brain on this subject, he is the expert. PETG-CF is pretty nice stuff, but normal PETG being less brittle may be a better option. Or have Nate laser cut for you in balsa. A very good option and still used in many composite models!
 
Thanks for the suggestion Wayne. I am planning on designing another wing with more curves like the Gizmo. Just figured I would wait until we have the proof of concept with the Echo.

I fiberglassed and vacuum bagged the plywood to the back of my mold today. Didnt quite have enough resin so there are some not wetted out spots on top but I will wet it out with a good coat after this one cures. It vacuumed down really well in the food bag and the airframe side actually conformed almost perfectly with only some minor wrinkles that should be super easy to work out when actually making the parts.

Pretty happy with how this mold is turning out. I have the other half all printed out and just need to spend some time glueing them together then it will get the same plywood/fiberglass treatment.

20260609_164113.webp20260609_173112.webp20260609_173058.webp
 
The planform of the wing you are using is really a result of what can be hot wire cut, if you have not progressed yet, I'd suggest changing the planform to be more curvy. This will probably teach you some new CAD skills, lofting with guides. In other words make it more like a blended wing.

a5965323-104-Gizmo.jpg

Never played with Onshape, but if they have an airfoil option, I'm sure they will allow you to add your own airfoils to it. Or just loft your own bodies.
Absolutely love the gismo! The vertical on it is what I was thinking of for the design of my tail. Something that can be taped on or possibly use magnets. Peter wick uses magnets on one of his planks and says it works great. He even has one that uses LEGOs to attach the tail.:ROFLMAO:
I actually like the planform Jeremy came up with a lot. It's a bit foamwirecuttery but It's cool. The lofts on the wingtips for the Echo require using guide lines. at first they were somewhat tricky but only because of how the radius is made to form the tip. It didn't want to loft when you tried to attach it to the guide. Fun learning how though.
I watched some videos on the PPS-Cf filament and wow is it pricey! But awesome! Maybe the PETG or PETG CF is the way to go.
I have had a laser for a while but had limited use of it because i didn't know anything about using CAD. Maybe I'll try to laser cut some spars myself .(y)
With Onshape you can add an airfoil very easily but you can't scale it in the free version if it's a DXF. The nice thing about the generators is that they scale between 2 points so anywhere along a planform you can position them and automatically scale them. Probably the same for other programs.
Thanks for the suggestions (y)
 
Please don't take my comments as anything serious, I am loving what you guys are doing!! I like that you each are doing something just a bit different and trying different approaches! Yo quote a grade school buddy: Awesome!
 
Absolutely love the gismo! The vertical on it is what I was thinking of for the design of my tail. Something that can be taped on or possibly use magnets. Peter wick uses magnets on one of his planks and says it works great. He even has one that uses LEGOs to attach the tail.:ROFLMAO:
I actually like the planform Jeremy came up with a lot. It's a bit foamwirecuttery but It's cool. The lofts on the wingtips for the Echo require using guide lines. at first they were somewhat tricky but only because of how the radius is made to form the tip. It didn't want to loft when you tried to attach it to the guide. Fun learning how though.
I watched some videos on the PPS-Cf filament and wow is it pricey! But awesome! Maybe the PETG or PETG CF is the way to go.
I have had a laser for a while but had limited use of it because i didn't know anything about using CAD. Maybe I'll try to laser cut some spars myself .(y)
With Onshape you can add an airfoil very easily but you can't scale it in the free version if it's a DXF. The nice thing about the generators is that they scale between 2 points so anywhere along a planform you can position them and automatically scale them. Probably the same for other programs.
Thanks for the suggestions (y)
Watching wth interest. Always good to see the logic people apply to new designs.

My two cents' worth.

IMHO The rearward central fin is the way to go, Kelly and it looks like all are headed that way. I have used this layout many times on early designs (many) in the late 80's, and basically the further you can get it back the better - within reason - and that's why I used a single detachable 'stinger'. Further back also allows you to reduce the fin area. But as that method also leaves the vertical fin liable to damage, I used a mechanical fuse - in my case, the fin 'boom' was taped on with an internal balsa wood rod which would break in the event of a bad landing. But having said that, if I had had rare-earth magnets, no doubt I would have used them. Dayum, those things are strong these days!

Oddly enough, I don't think I ever broke one of my 'balsa fuses' except for one time while mishandling the model getting it out of the car. Dooohhh! I found that in use, the flying wings are really rugged. Apart from the fin, they are monolithic and pretty hard to damage.

I think the designs here are all pretty good, though there is a lot to be said for guiding the isobars over the centre of the wing - i.e. inceasing the chord at the centre to keep the spanwise flow down a bit, and the pressure up on the flaperons like Tim and Peter's
Gizmo design. By the way, the larger 2M versions of the same design that Tim made were really good too.

As an aside, I was with Tim in the Brisbane area of Australia, when he was bungee launching his Gizmo with a REALLY powerful medical rubber tube that gave almost supersonic speed launches to a couple of hundred feet. One time, just as he was going to let go of the model, the bungee anchor failed, and the whole caboosh shot back and hit him in the chest with an almighty thwack - he was black and blue for days!

It's never been categorically proved, but it's really easy to see that, technically, the flying wing, if correctly designed, should be the fastest of all slope planes. I always hoped to make a really quick wing for MoM or F3F - they are a bit hard to see at times when flying, and would probably take quite a bit of getting used to and maybe need some new flying techniques, but with a bit of brain bashing on the design side and practice on the flying side, it should be unbeatable.

Carry on the good work!

Cheers,

Doc
 
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Ive been super busy with work and family stuff so its been on hold a little bit unfortunately. I still need to sand and clean up the fiberglass from epoxying the wood in the back of my mold and then I will start prepping the tooling side of the mold.
 
Hello,
I browsed the thread, but I'm not sure to understand the construction/structural part. Is it defined yet ? Will there be a spar and what would be its construction ? What would be the layup ?
Are the 3D printed parts in first post still the idea: 3d printed spat and rib with outer composite shell ?
Best regards,
JMF
 
Hello,
I browsed the thread, but I'm not sure to understand the construction/structural part. Is it defined yet ? Will there be a spar and what would be its construction ? What would be the layup ?
Are the 3D printed parts in first post still the idea: 3d printed spat and rib with outer composite shell ?
Best regards,
JMF
Hey JMF,
That is the plan I am currently working with. I have the 3d printed ribs with a carbon spar that will span the width of the wing. For the layup, Im just planning to use some fiberglass I have laying around but not sure what weight it is. Gonna give it a go and see how it turns out. Lol
I do have some nice carbon I want to use eventually but that will be for when we get it tested and flying with a fiberglass version.
 
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Well, after some set backs and just not having any spare time the future is looking less busy and I will be getting back onto this project. Looking forward to making some progress towards starting to mold an airframe. Thanks for the interest and questions, hopefully I will start updating a bit more often again.
 
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