E Toccata

[Hill Hobbit]

Hi Michael, yes I’m aft a bit from 113, probably now 114, I’m going to have to check it. The quoted figure of 90 in the manual is way, way out. Indeed, RC Composite Gliders in Germany quoted 90 for months but that was before they actually had any models in stock. As soon as they actually flew their first model, which was actually electric like yours, they changed their recommendation to 110 (as a start). Info about this is all in the Tocatta thread here in the slope glider section where you will see I’ve suggested to Doc J (many moons ago) that the manual’s cg be amended.
The max ballasted weight I’ve flown at is now around 2,400g all up in a 20/25 wind on our best slope, and the speed in a vertical dive from around 3 or 4 hundred feet has to be seen to be believed! What’s more, is that the energy takes a looong time to bleed off (usually doing super fast classic pattern type aerobatics). It’ll stay where it’s pointed in a steep dive, but isn’t totally neutral as it still needs a slight push of down for level inverted.
Perfect! Those who have flown my model love it.

 

[Wayne]

I just updated our product page as we did not have the CG details.

Hill Hobbit - Hope it is OK, I copied and pasted your performance comments.

 

[Hill Hobbit]

Hi Wayne, carry on. It is a superb flying model (with the cg in the right place). To me and the gang, we look at it as a Forza on steroids, I think of it as the Curare of the slope world cuz it does exactly the same aeros (other than the figure M) at sometimes a higher speed than my actual Curare.
It is that good.

 

[Hill Hobbit]

And yes, 113 or a bit more does seem absolutely crazy!

 

[fastchop]

Well, that explains why I kept loading up the front end with weight so I could get to CG in the 90s. I will try going back and see cause I usually like to fly aft of stated CG’s.

 

[fastchop]

Hi, went flying this morning with cg moved back to 110mm from 95mm. And it’s flew great. but it did at 95. Also, A little down elevator and I reduced up elevator. It did wanna stall full throw, drop left wing. Flew again at 112 113 no problem.

Michael

 

[Hill Hobbit]

Hi Michael, I’ve just checked my elevator throws in Normal flight mode.
High rate: 6.5mm
Mid rate: 5mm
Low rate: 4mm

These are in combination with up/down wing t.e. snap flap set to come in gently at just before 1/3 elevator stick throw.

Every hotliner style electric converted glider I’ve flown to date (as well as the run of the mill electric assisted thermal models seen at literally every club field) has had to have a throttle to down elevator mix set up in the tx. Without a throttle/elev mix, I’ve witnessed a full power launch turn into a fast loop into the ground behind the pilot (?).
Remember the P51 Galloping Ghost crash at Reno? (RIP to those who lost their lives). That was caused by the elevator trim tab parting company with the elevator when it was set to a lot of down to keep the plane level at very high speed.

Does your Toccata fly level at full bore on its own without holding the stick forward, or does it always stick it’s nose up doing the homesick angel thing?

 

[Wayne]

If you are getting a stall at full elevator, you can reduce the throw on the elevator.

As you push the CG back the elevator has a lot less work to do, and you no longer need as much throw. This is part of that efficiency glider pilots are seeking.

Hill - Most planes of this style will have no down thrust built into them to control the climb under power. The amount of down thrust that would be needed would require the nose of the plane to be pitched down as some of the LONG geared inrunners people want to run can't be "angled" in the fuselage to achieve the down thrust. This bent nose will cause you some drag at speed. I personally just adjust my elevator input as I am flying, no mix. I'm not a big fan of mixing for this application. Some folks like a stabilized receiver to control the pitch change.

 

[fastchop]

Hi guys, when I cut the nose off to fuselage, I cut a little angle down and a little angle to the right. I really didn’t notice a lot of difference in the way the way it flew. I did like to feel of the stall turns better with cg aft. I had to reduce my elevator throw. And no, it does not just go straight up during motor run. I usually don’t use motor on a straight line besides going up but I can without a real problem.

 

[fastchop]

Had some nice flights today!! A pair of Doc’s rippers. And MsAgnus

 

[Doc James Hammond]

If you are getting a stall at full elevator, you can reduce the throw on the elevator.

As you push the CG back the elevator has a lot less work to do, and you no longer need as much throw. This is part of that efficiency glider pilots are seeking.

Hill - Most planes of this style will have no down thrust built into them to control the climb under power. The amount of down thrust that would be needed would require the nose of the plane to be pitched down as some of the LONG geared inrunners people want to run can't be "angled" in the fuselage to achieve the down thrust. This bent nose will cause you some drag at speed. I personally just adjust my elevator input as I am flying, no mix. I'm not a big fan of mixing for this application. Some folks like a stabilized receiver to control the pitch change.

Wayne is right. The nose is already down by 1.5 degrees,

Doc.