Glenn Beer
Active User
Well said. In parallel - I’ve spent too many hours lost in the rabbit hole that is Linux to ever want to install it again.
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DJ Aerotech Chrysalis F3-RES to F5-RESt
- Thread starter Konrad
- Start date
I get mad enough trying to figure out a cell phone contract, why would I want to mess with Linux? LOL
(I still don't understand how I was able to get $600 back on my last phone renewal by adding 2 ghost phone lines that will cost me $10 a month and I can cancel them in 1 year.)
(I still don't understand how I was able to get $600 back on my last phone renewal by adding 2 ghost phone lines that will cost me $10 a month and I can cancel them in 1 year.)
Konrad
Very Strong User
Yep, my fall back thought process is if it doesn't make sense; follow the money. But in this case that falls short.
Konrad
Very Strong User
I need to learn to only endorse my checks!
Last weekend I was ribbed by some good friends, mostly in good nature way, over my endorsement of FrSky's radios. This is mainly as a result of my recommendation to them that OpenTX was so much better than any other user interface. The core of their issue was that FrSky’s ACCeSS now has 2 version of firmware that aren’t compatible with each other. This was/is a little known bug that isn't clearly noted. This issue has cost them and myself many hobby hours in frustration.
Back to my F5-RESt conversion. The Achilles heal for this conversion is looking like it is going to be the prop blades need for my geared set up and the small CN 25mm spinner. To the best of my knowledge there are no blades for this set up.
I thought I could modify the Graupner geared Cam props that were available for the geared Speed 400 class gliders. But the CN “Z”- hub is too narrow. Also the blade root has a huge vertical component that would require that the spinner be almost split in half by the clearance cutout.
It looks like I’ll be using the Aeronaut prop blades as the basis for making a fitted set of blades. The main issue with these is while the root is again too large to fit the hub, the pin holes are 3mm in diameter . The “Z” hub is fitted with 2mm pins. So I had to machine a set of 3mm to 2mm bushing as couldn’t find any standard metric tubbing. (I’m in the backwards USA. Didn't we fight a war against the rule of the king’s foot. Heck, the inch is already tied the the meter so why not use this rational system directly)! A large advantage with the Aeronaut blade is that its root goes out about 30° which will result in lot less of a cutout for blade clearance.
Now the question I have is what side of the blade root is best to machine to fit into the “Z” hub. Originally I wanted to keep the driven side as it came from the OEM. But this looks like it is negating some of the effect of the “Z” hub. So I’ll try narrowing the root from the driven side.
All the best,
Konrad
Last weekend I was ribbed by some good friends, mostly in good nature way, over my endorsement of FrSky's radios. This is mainly as a result of my recommendation to them that OpenTX was so much better than any other user interface. The core of their issue was that FrSky’s ACCeSS now has 2 version of firmware that aren’t compatible with each other. This was/is a little known bug that isn't clearly noted. This issue has cost them and myself many hobby hours in frustration.
Back to my F5-RESt conversion. The Achilles heal for this conversion is looking like it is going to be the prop blades need for my geared set up and the small CN 25mm spinner. To the best of my knowledge there are no blades for this set up.
I thought I could modify the Graupner geared Cam props that were available for the geared Speed 400 class gliders. But the CN “Z”- hub is too narrow. Also the blade root has a huge vertical component that would require that the spinner be almost split in half by the clearance cutout.
It looks like I’ll be using the Aeronaut prop blades as the basis for making a fitted set of blades. The main issue with these is while the root is again too large to fit the hub, the pin holes are 3mm in diameter . The “Z” hub is fitted with 2mm pins. So I had to machine a set of 3mm to 2mm bushing as couldn’t find any standard metric tubbing. (I’m in the backwards USA. Didn't we fight a war against the rule of the king’s foot. Heck, the inch is already tied the the meter so why not use this rational system directly)! A large advantage with the Aeronaut blade is that its root goes out about 30° which will result in lot less of a cutout for blade clearance.
Now the question I have is what side of the blade root is best to machine to fit into the “Z” hub. Originally I wanted to keep the driven side as it came from the OEM. But this looks like it is negating some of the effect of the “Z” hub. So I’ll try narrowing the root from the driven side.
All the best,
Konrad
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Konrad
Very Strong User
I just picked up a set of 12 x10 and 11x10 that I will try to fit onto the hub. If starting with a clean sheet I would have gone with the 29mm to 30m spinners.
Remember this is a conversion from a glider format. I was going to go with the 30mm spinner. But this would have added a lot of frontal area to the glider. I saw the CN 25mm Z hub and thought I could use the old Graupner geared Cam props (old Speed 400 LMR set up). Alas CN is making it very difficult to fit the Graupner geared Cam prop blades.
While one needs to be cognizant of the forces involved when making of modifying prop. The fact that this will be a sub 200 watt set up I think I can safely use modified Aeronaut blades.
hackermotorusa.com
Another issue I will have is that the gearbox has a full length flat spot on the output shaft. this will make it difficult to use that nice collet.
By the way I think you are out of stock with some of these blades.
Remember this is a conversion from a glider format. I was going to go with the 30mm spinner. But this would have added a lot of frontal area to the glider. I saw the CN 25mm Z hub and thought I could use the old Graupner geared Cam props (old Speed 400 LMR set up). Alas CN is making it very difficult to fit the Graupner geared Cam prop blades.
While one needs to be cognizant of the forces involved when making of modifying prop. The fact that this will be a sub 200 watt set up I think I can safely use modified Aeronaut blades.
A10-7L + 4.4:1 - Hacker Motor USA
A very special drive for small or light gliders such as HLG or RES classes up to 700gr. Due to its small dimensions and slim gearbox this motor is suitable for minimalist fuselages.
hackermotorusa.com
Another issue I will have is that the gearbox has a full length flat spot on the output shaft. this will make it difficult to use that nice collet.
By the way I think you are out of stock with some of these blades.
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Konrad, Wayne,
Question about the ACCST ACCESS protocols. I have an archer Rx i haven't bound to my X9lite yet. If i up date the firmware to the new ACCESS will i lose the ability to use ACCST too? Currently i can select either protocol in my menu when binding a Rx. So if i update the ACCESS do i have to update all my Rxs? Just trying to figure what is in store for me.
Thanks,
Hank
Question about the ACCST ACCESS protocols. I have an archer Rx i haven't bound to my X9lite yet. If i up date the firmware to the new ACCESS will i lose the ability to use ACCST too? Currently i can select either protocol in my menu when binding a Rx. So if i update the ACCESS do i have to update all my Rxs? Just trying to figure what is in store for me.
Thanks,
Hank
Konrad
Very Strong User
Yes and NO.
The Archer Rx will NOT register or bind to the ISRM v1.1.3 currently in the TX! This means that to get the Archer to bind to an FrSky tx you need to update the ISRM to v2.1.0. It is very sad that one can't bind/ use a newly purchased TX and a newly purchased Rx straight out of the box!!!
But all is not lost the upgrade is very simple. It has to be if I was able to accomplish it!
Now what is not clear is that if upgrading the ISRM to use the Archer RX you WILL break the link to your current ACCST v1. D-16 receivers.
So again you will need to update your ACCST D-16 v1 receivers to ACCST D-16 v2 . This was all driven by FrSky's lack of understanding with the invalid data pack pass through issue. With some proper engineering controls this issue should not have passed into the ACCeSS product line, but it has!!!
FrSky is no longer a RC hobby firm, they are now basically a firm for those that think firmware and software updates are unto themselves a hobby. This has turned into such a poor state of affair.
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Konrad
Very Strong User
In the old days of geared Speed 400 LMR we did have some small 25mm to 29mm spinner that had much smaller blade roots. But I don't think any of them had the "Z" hub made popular by the F5B ships. Guys were trying to use these small blades at much higher rpm and power with the inevitable thrown blades. This is why in the age of the brushless motor we have seen the small root blade all but disappear from the market. I think Graupner and Aeronaut have pulled all their small root blades.
Anyone following along, this exercise is not meant to be done at the consumer level. Rather this is a hobby exercise where one needs to be very aware of the limitation of the products and dangers of the modification.
All the best,
Konrad
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Konrad
Very Strong User
Now what surprised me was the difference in blade profiles within the same family.
I like to bracket my purchase of blade sizes when looking for the one that is best suited. But changes in shape along with diameter and pitch adds a lot of variables to contend with.
BTW: This is why most power simulators have such large error bars (10% t0 15%)
All the best,
Konrad
I like to bracket my purchase of blade sizes when looking for the one that is best suited. But changes in shape along with diameter and pitch adds a lot of variables to contend with.
BTW: This is why most power simulators have such large error bars (10% t0 15%)
All the best,
Konrad
At 25mm you run into packaging challenges. With the new prop building methods you can get away with much smaller hubs on the props now. To be clear, I am not talking about mass produced blades, but hand laid carbon blades. That is what we see being developed for these new spinners. Also the blades are designed to sit very flat when folded.
Anyhow, that is enough of this topic for this thread. I do not think your complaints are valid, you are trying to make products work together that are not intended to work together.
Anyhow, that is enough of this topic for this thread. I do not think your complaints are valid, you are trying to make products work together that are not intended to work together.
Konrad
Very Strong User
Have I made any complaint about the CN spinner and the fitting of blades for geared applications? I have pointed out concerns that "I" must deal with, when fitting things that never were intended to work together. These issues are my responsibilities. I thought I was clear that this modification is not a consumer level exercise .
The only complaint I think I've voiced here in this thread is that new out of the box FrSky RF component don't work together at all! I thought Tx's and Rx's are to work together.
That folded requirement is why that blade root goes up so much cutting into the black spinner cone. This is done to allow the blade to get past the nose and fold back along the fuselage. One way to do this is with the blade root or to widen the hub's pin to pin diameter. But then we would loose the pin retention feature of the black plastic spinner cone.
I have a set of CN carbon lay up 6" and 7" blades. These are well suited to the intended application of the F5K 1.5 meter glider.
Now I'm trying to develop a power set up for the F5-RESt class of 2 meter glider. Or more precisely grafting a power system to a built F3-RES class glider with the minimum of rework to the airframe and power components. This is based on a Hacker A10 geared motor. As such I'm on my own.
Are you aware of CN developing a set of blades for geared systems? I would gladly buy a $35 set of blades designed for the 25mm spinner Z hub rather that fit a set of blades that are for too thick for the application.
All the best,
Konrad
P.S.
If I've said anything against the CN 25mm spinner I apologize. It is well designed for its intended application. I love the collet, I like that the draw down nut has a metal to metal contact area.
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Konrad
Very Strong User
I can understand that. Every time I buy a FrSky product it fails the first time I try to introduce it into service. Here with the X-Lite S it was damaged when the mis tolerance extended caps tore up the battery holders. And then the new Archer R4 failed to register and bind. A problem you found about the same time I did. I'm sure we are all annoyed and saddened that every time I find these issue it can be traced to incompetence in FrSky engineering/ QC system. The FrSky product line has so much potential that it is sad to see this potential squandered when for an 10% extra effort from FrSky it could make FrSky best in class. Heck the best RC product! We loved OpenTX and for a long time FrSky was the only game in town. But today we, the customer, have options some of them are in fact looking very good.
On the prop blades are there others that have indicated that they would like to try a geared power system? Most find that a little longer out-runner armature and a lower Kv wind is more than adequate when looking at the cost of a gearbox. I'd like to see more blade options than the current 2 that I know about. But I really don't think that in todays market there is enough demand for large blades for geared systems like we had in the old days of the geared Speed 400. Being an outlier on the Gaussian curve means I'll likely have to fit and make my own blades.
On the prop blades are there others that have indicated that they would like to try a geared power system? Most find that a little longer out-runner armature and a lower Kv wind is more than adequate when looking at the cost of a gearbox. I'd like to see more blade options than the current 2 that I know about. But I really don't think that in todays market there is enough demand for large blades for geared systems like we had in the old days of the geared Speed 400. Being an outlier on the Gaussian curve means I'll likely have to fit and make my own blades.
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Konrad
Very Strong User
WOW!
This has just become my favorite flat land thermal ship! Ok, that's not true but is one of the best 2 meter RES ships I've ever flown!
I test flew her at 427 grams and she was way too nose heavy with the CG around 80mm. In her original form (F3-RES) a CG of 90+mm looked best. So it is looking like I may have to cut the nose back again another 10mm to 15mm. But before I do that I think I'll recover the V-tail in Oracover lite for a bit of tail weight, as the Solite red looks a bit pinkish.
The power system is more than enough, my vertical is not wanting for anything! I fear that in the horizontal I might be able to go too fast. Really didn't test this as the nose heavy condition pushed the glider into the vertical whenever I started to go fast. Power is about 120 watts with a current daw of about 12 amp. Prop RPM was a bit more than I though at 4300 rpm.
After fitting the blades I have to admit that I'm a bit concerned with just how small the blade arm (mount) is for an injected plastic blade. I may be forced to use these as the plug for a mold to make a set of hand laid carbon fiber blades. Not sure the 12 x 13 is the best blade so I really don't want to make a mold from these just yet.
Can't say too much about the motor or spoiler comp as the CG is really still a bit gross (nose heavy).
Now the fun part flight testing to find the best trim configuration! With only 2 test flights there is still a lot of work to do.
All the best,
Konrad
This has just become my favorite flat land thermal ship! Ok, that's not true but is one of the best 2 meter RES ships I've ever flown!
I test flew her at 427 grams and she was way too nose heavy with the CG around 80mm. In her original form (F3-RES) a CG of 90+mm looked best. So it is looking like I may have to cut the nose back again another 10mm to 15mm. But before I do that I think I'll recover the V-tail in Oracover lite for a bit of tail weight, as the Solite red looks a bit pinkish.
The power system is more than enough, my vertical is not wanting for anything! I fear that in the horizontal I might be able to go too fast. Really didn't test this as the nose heavy condition pushed the glider into the vertical whenever I started to go fast. Power is about 120 watts with a current daw of about 12 amp. Prop RPM was a bit more than I though at 4300 rpm.
After fitting the blades I have to admit that I'm a bit concerned with just how small the blade arm (mount) is for an injected plastic blade. I may be forced to use these as the plug for a mold to make a set of hand laid carbon fiber blades. Not sure the 12 x 13 is the best blade so I really don't want to make a mold from these just yet.
Can't say too much about the motor or spoiler comp as the CG is really still a bit gross (nose heavy).
Now the fun part flight testing to find the best trim configuration! With only 2 test flights there is still a lot of work to do.
All the best,
Konrad
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Konrad,
Congrats on the good test flight. Given the choice between re covering the tail and shortening the nose I’d do the tail. However if you do change the nose you can go to the 30mm spinner and have more options for props.
I need to finish a few more planes so I can start my 2Mretf model.
Hank
Congrats on the good test flight. Given the choice between re covering the tail and shortening the nose I’d do the tail. However if you do change the nose you can go to the 30mm spinner and have more options for props.
I need to finish a few more planes so I can start my 2Mretf model.
Hank
Konrad
Very Strong User
The 30mm spinner has always been an option. I choose the 25mm as it fit the fuselage of the original F3 RES configuration much better. I was hoping that all I would need to, do this time, is take out a 10mm section and reuse the motor mount and pressure cowl that I already made.
As to props I can fit just about any I want. It is just that I'll have to hand fit them to the Z hub. This is much like the days when we carved our own props for quarter midget racing (QM .15) and F1 pylon. 4.3K rpm really isn't too much force on the blade pivot points.
I have to say I really do like the building as apposed to just assembling ARF models. Please do post a build thread.
As to props I can fit just about any I want. It is just that I'll have to hand fit them to the Z hub. This is much like the days when we carved our own props for quarter midget racing (QM .15) and F1 pylon. 4.3K rpm really isn't too much force on the blade pivot points.
I have to say I really do like the building as apposed to just assembling ARF models. Please do post a build thread.
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