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Bringing back MOM racing!
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
Yep - Not enough pilots signed up to fill the grid. Yes, we still had several weeks to find pilots, but the workload to get the field prepped was about to spin up, so a deadline was set that would still give enough time to get folks out to the site for cleanup and construction. Gate B was destroyed in the fire, lots of itchy bushes to remove, etc.
Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
My Sunday morning rambling:
I think we need a bit of background and present thought here, and an invitation to participate in this idea for all who are interested.
MOM Fun:
I'll say it right now, in model gliding there is no discipline that gives the same excitement, anticipation, adrenaline rush and satisfaction as MOM racing. FUN, FUN, FUN!!! Sometimes in these days of forums - happily this is a great one - and sometimes, due to stupidity, people forget that the object of the exercise here is to have FUN.
What we are trying to do:
It used to be that MOM was almost an"Ego" event. I can fly faster than you, I can design and make a plane faster than yours, etc. But I think this is long gone, and most of the time, the skills and time needed to do it on your own design have gone too. Back then, making your own plane for the most part was no choice.
What we (Red, Wayne, Ollie and I - the gang of four?) are trying to do is to find ways to get MOM racing going again in the USA. Actually, I remember when I was actively Pylon racing in the UK (A loooong time ago), and we heard about F3f, which I believe started in Scandinavia and was not an FAI category at that time. : Never going to catch on," we grinned. Oh, was I wrong. But it's true to say that participation in F3f, which is NOT MOM racing, is declining in Europe - its stronghold. The reason - overall its just too boring.
Our idea initially was to try to hold a "kinda" MOM at Banos to see what happened, which was actually moderately successful and maybe would have been a lot of fun and a good start had it not been for the heat, which was excessive. So that went west.
ISR attempt:
Then the idea was simply to try to cooperate to hold a real ISR at Davenport, its home in the USA. Well, that went west, too, as Wayne has explained.
So far, no-go. Then presently our thinking, rightly or wrongly, in trying to analyse the reasons why MOM does not seem to be the sport that everyone jumps to get into has been:
Expense? - Maybe these shiny mouldies are too pricey to use? - especially in the unstable economic climate that exists in the USA today. Maybe people are nervous chucking their expensive planes into the fray where they might get damaged or written off. This is and always has been true with MOM. 4-up racing of really fast (they are faster now) models will result in carnage from time to time, but it's surprisingly rare.
Solution: Go small, cheap, and simple to begin with: Maybe try to make available printed or short kit 60" (1.5M) models for a 60" class. There are sporadic, sometimes ODR races all over the place already, but they seem to have died out in California.
Lack of experience? - Maybe people are afraid of being embarrassed by their lack of very serious 'formation' flying?
Solution: Just make the easy-to-build, easy-to-fly models available at affordable fun prices and let it infect the community to want to go for the bigger, faster model races later, after people have more experience? Hold at least one race (ISR) and more if possible, to let the newcomers who might be interested take a look and hopefully "get the bug". It doesn't have to be big in the beginning, just simple and fun.
Rules?: Make the rules safety-oriented, and nothing else but really simple plane specs. Make participation easy.
Onward:
Ollie Red and Wayne are talking about making available 60 models, the prototypes for which are already flying or on the way. I may be able to help with at least one "traditional" (non-printed) prototype by making glass fuselages.
Most important: We are experienced pylon racers. We know what it costs and what it brings in terms of enjoyment.
So, what are the reasons preventing YOU from participating in this excitement? If you are just not interested/not a competitive person, then fine, but what would it take to get YOU interested? Your opinions here are the most important information we can have to make these events and the great fun they can bring happen and be as attractive to as many people as possible.
If you can put down your thoughts here, that would be a great indicator, and we'd have a better idea of which way to go..
Cheers,
Doc.
I think we need a bit of background and present thought here, and an invitation to participate in this idea for all who are interested.
MOM Fun:
I'll say it right now, in model gliding there is no discipline that gives the same excitement, anticipation, adrenaline rush and satisfaction as MOM racing. FUN, FUN, FUN!!! Sometimes in these days of forums - happily this is a great one - and sometimes, due to stupidity, people forget that the object of the exercise here is to have FUN.
What we are trying to do:
It used to be that MOM was almost an"Ego" event. I can fly faster than you, I can design and make a plane faster than yours, etc. But I think this is long gone, and most of the time, the skills and time needed to do it on your own design have gone too. Back then, making your own plane for the most part was no choice.
What we (Red, Wayne, Ollie and I - the gang of four?) are trying to do is to find ways to get MOM racing going again in the USA. Actually, I remember when I was actively Pylon racing in the UK (A loooong time ago), and we heard about F3f, which I believe started in Scandinavia and was not an FAI category at that time. : Never going to catch on," we grinned. Oh, was I wrong. But it's true to say that participation in F3f, which is NOT MOM racing, is declining in Europe - its stronghold. The reason - overall its just too boring.
Our idea initially was to try to hold a "kinda" MOM at Banos to see what happened, which was actually moderately successful and maybe would have been a lot of fun and a good start had it not been for the heat, which was excessive. So that went west.
ISR attempt:
Then the idea was simply to try to cooperate to hold a real ISR at Davenport, its home in the USA. Well, that went west, too, as Wayne has explained.
So far, no-go. Then presently our thinking, rightly or wrongly, in trying to analyse the reasons why MOM does not seem to be the sport that everyone jumps to get into has been:
Expense? - Maybe these shiny mouldies are too pricey to use? - especially in the unstable economic climate that exists in the USA today. Maybe people are nervous chucking their expensive planes into the fray where they might get damaged or written off. This is and always has been true with MOM. 4-up racing of really fast (they are faster now) models will result in carnage from time to time, but it's surprisingly rare.
Solution: Go small, cheap, and simple to begin with: Maybe try to make available printed or short kit 60" (1.5M) models for a 60" class. There are sporadic, sometimes ODR races all over the place already, but they seem to have died out in California.
Lack of experience? - Maybe people are afraid of being embarrassed by their lack of very serious 'formation' flying?
Solution: Just make the easy-to-build, easy-to-fly models available at affordable fun prices and let it infect the community to want to go for the bigger, faster model races later, after people have more experience? Hold at least one race (ISR) and more if possible, to let the newcomers who might be interested take a look and hopefully "get the bug". It doesn't have to be big in the beginning, just simple and fun.
Rules?: Make the rules safety-oriented, and nothing else but really simple plane specs. Make participation easy.
Onward:
Ollie Red and Wayne are talking about making available 60 models, the prototypes for which are already flying or on the way. I may be able to help with at least one "traditional" (non-printed) prototype by making glass fuselages.
Most important: We are experienced pylon racers. We know what it costs and what it brings in terms of enjoyment.
So, what are the reasons preventing YOU from participating in this excitement? If you are just not interested/not a competitive person, then fine, but what would it take to get YOU interested? Your opinions here are the most important information we can have to make these events and the great fun they can bring happen and be as attractive to as many people as possible.
If you can put down your thoughts here, that would be a great indicator, and we'd have a better idea of which way to go..
Cheers,
Doc.
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Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Glad to see that Ollie's (Aloft) Printed sub 60" model looks like a good start.
By the way, guys, if you want to see what an unballasted 60" moulded model can do - take a look here. Thanks to CRG for the impressive video.
Doc.
By the way, guys, if you want to see what an unballasted 60" moulded model can do - take a look here. Thanks to CRG for the impressive video.
Doc.
JJ Colorado
Very Strong User
Sorry that the ISR event didn't happen. However in Wilson Kansas, the Midwest slope challenge Did happen.
We didn't get to fly the 4 up ODR racing due to fickle winds. Was really looking forward to that as we have many competitors and ODR is a Great racing class. Andrew even brought bunch of pre-built ODRs for sale if people wanted, or needed a backup.
However, the event started off with Booming winds so we ran Unlimited class first. Unlimited means, anything but an ODR 60" racing glider. Yeah you could race a Magnus, which I brought as a backup to my Forza. It even looks like the Mini-Me version of my Forza. I did ok with the Forza but made a slightly high turn which is all that Joe needed to take me out of the final 4 competitors. Unlimited class had everything from fast 1.5m models to Needles, Storms, Redshifts (3m+) composite gliders. Lots of variety and lots of speed. Amazingly though, Unlimited 1 on 1 racing had no mid airs or flying calamities other than botched landings due to strong and gusty winds. I believe the top three were Thane, Andrew W, and Andrew K, but will need to check. I came in around 4th or 5th which was still good IMO.
We do have 1-1 and 4 up racing in Kansas each spring. Longest drive to the contest was 1,500 miles.
We didn't get to fly the 4 up ODR racing due to fickle winds. Was really looking forward to that as we have many competitors and ODR is a Great racing class. Andrew even brought bunch of pre-built ODRs for sale if people wanted, or needed a backup.
However, the event started off with Booming winds so we ran Unlimited class first. Unlimited means, anything but an ODR 60" racing glider. Yeah you could race a Magnus, which I brought as a backup to my Forza. It even looks like the Mini-Me version of my Forza. I did ok with the Forza but made a slightly high turn which is all that Joe needed to take me out of the final 4 competitors. Unlimited class had everything from fast 1.5m models to Needles, Storms, Redshifts (3m+) composite gliders. Lots of variety and lots of speed. Amazingly though, Unlimited 1 on 1 racing had no mid airs or flying calamities other than botched landings due to strong and gusty winds. I believe the top three were Thane, Andrew W, and Andrew K, but will need to check. I came in around 4th or 5th which was still good IMO.
We do have 1-1 and 4 up racing in Kansas each spring. Longest drive to the contest was 1,500 miles.
Attachments
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JJ Colorado
Very Strong User
Yes, Mike was there. Third year in a row he took first place in combat, and while I took second, he had twice as many kills. Think he found a way to add helium chambers to his Mega SST. We had a good size crew flying combat (13 or 14) and we flew rounds on two days so it was a lot of air time.
Keep in mind that we Do have another form of 4 up racing that is relatively cheap and quick build. Dream Flight racing. This was our second year flying this and it is crazy fun. You need to fly around the pylon or it is a cut. Four up at a time. We had Ahi's, Alulas, Libelles and I think even a Weasel. Ahi or Ahi derivatives seem to do best, but Greg Schutte flew very fast and clean rounds with a Weasel or Alula (don't remember which). They fly best in lighter winds, but stronger winds make getting around each pole a lot more challenging.
Keep in mind that we Do have another form of 4 up racing that is relatively cheap and quick build. Dream Flight racing. This was our second year flying this and it is crazy fun. You need to fly around the pylon or it is a cut. Four up at a time. We had Ahi's, Alulas, Libelles and I think even a Weasel. Ahi or Ahi derivatives seem to do best, but Greg Schutte flew very fast and clean rounds with a Weasel or Alula (don't remember which). They fly best in lighter winds, but stronger winds make getting around each pole a lot more challenging.
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Doc James Hammond
Very Strong User
Congratulations, Andrew, best known as "Canuck" of Canuck Engineering, attained second place in the MoM event at the Midwest Slope Challenge with his Gen 1 Redshift. He overballasted in the final, so he probably could have won the event.
MOM! MOM! MOM!
Doc.
MOM! MOM! MOM!
Doc.
JJ Colorado
Very Strong User
The Unlimited class racing looked nothing like the Dream Flight racing. Unlimited was Very tight racing with most races ending with both planes diving to the finish line together. Several of the races had the lead go back and forth within the five laps. It was double elimination format. My Forza finished only a couple places behind Andrew's Redshift, and I had far less ballast.
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JJ Colorado
Very Strong User
While the Midwest Slope Challenge has 4 up as well as 1:1 racing, at the end of the official Dream Flight racing we fly... All Up racing
I refer to this a Man on Mob racing. Here is Bryans video from the perspective of the far turn. You are required to fly Around the pole.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xdWhKpnmBEDCgakJ6
I refer to this a Man on Mob racing. Here is Bryans video from the perspective of the far turn. You are required to fly Around the pole.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xdWhKpnmBEDCgakJ6
JJ Colorado
Very Strong User
Here are videos of Unlimited flying at Wilson and other pics. This was taken by Bryan Lorentzen. The winds were strong and gusty so if you got pinned back close to the hill at the far pole you lost a lot of time.
Click the forward or back arrows to cycle through the videos / pics.
photos.google.com
The good and bad news from watching the races.
Good news, my plane is fast. Just about all of the planes are fast.
Bad news, the thumbs are slow. Almost every 1:1 race was lost by dumb thumbing of one sort or another. Maybe Aloft should sell smart thumbs. Probly run out before I could buy em.
Click the forward or back arrows to cycle through the videos / pics.
Google Photos
photos.google.com
The good and bad news from watching the races.
Good news, my plane is fast. Just about all of the planes are fast.
Bad news, the thumbs are slow. Almost every 1:1 race was lost by dumb thumbing of one sort or another. Maybe Aloft should sell smart thumbs. Probly run out before I could buy em.
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thenated0g
Moderator
thats cool!
keithskye
New User
60" / 1.5m span racing (on a short course like F3F) might be a way to keep the cost/risk factor down to a point where it would be more palatable for many who can't or don't want to risk a larger unlimited class model. I would put forth that 2m would be ideal middle ground, especially for moldies.
JJ Colorado
Very Strong User
Our most popular class of racing is ODR 60" balsa sheeted foam core planes. Unfortunately didn't get to fly it this time. Here are a bunch of Canuck's ODRs. Durable, fast fun. He sells these receiver ready, or as kits, or part by part. Buy a fuse, wing cores, built up wing... In addition to racing they are great all around gliders. We generally build them out at 25oz then ballast them to 35oz if conditions warrant it. The fuses are strong and if you use nylon bolts to hold the wing on, sometimes a mid-air requires only replacing wing bolts and taping over dents. If you want a molded 60" then get a Magnus. I like my Magnus a lot, but I think these ODRs are more fun to race. Just my 2/5th of a nickle.
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zeo0nie1
Active User
I kinda hate to be doing this, but food for thought: "MoM" -> "PoP" (Person on Person.)
Between me wanting my daughter to be interested and my wife making a comment to me about "only dudes showing up" to fly, I realized the "Man on Man" name seems a bit exclusionary and dated.
Between me wanting my daughter to be interested and my wife making a comment to me about "only dudes showing up" to fly, I realized the "Man on Man" name seems a bit exclusionary and dated.
