Bringing back MOM racing!

[Wayne]

Might I suggest the 60" class is kept very simple. This has worked well down in So Cal with the Speedo races. We kept things very informal and made the events fun. We had no plans to promote pilots to higher classes - You won nothing but bragging rights. The goal was to keep things simple and fun with minimal expense.

Possible 60" class rules:

1. 60" max wingspan
2. Have fun. (No party poopers)
3. An event is an event regardless of weather. Raining? No lift - We still hang out and have a good time.

I plan to bring a few 3D printed planes to the first event and we can see how they do. I'm signing up Jarron and Rafael, and think they will also have 3D printed airframes. If you want to fly composite, that is fine, but let it be known I will not give up my race line when I'm flying a disposable model.

Hmm, how well will a 3D printed airframe hold up to Los Banos Summer heat?

If we did a race at Weldon, one plyon could be behind the slope. That could be entertaining for someone like me that has not flown much DS at all.

 

[Wayne]

If folks would like a printed airframe, but don't want to mess with the printing, we can do the printing at Aloft. We could put together a little kit with the printed parts and the carbon that is needed. Royalties going to the designers of the given models.

 

[Twyl]

Fun was definitely had at previous Speedo MoM races, even when they got blown out, and we kept the rules simple.

THE RULES:
1) Have fun
2) KISS
3) All race planes must be the Speedo 1.2M Thermo
4) Stock built up wings only (no sheeted, foam core, etc.) custom covering jobs are ok and highly encouraged to differentiate your plane from the herd.
5) Fuse can be stock, socked, or otherwise modified, reinforced, or repaired. Pilots are highly encouraged to attach a wing to the fuse before launching, although there is no penalty for launching the fuse first then the wing.
6) Ballast systems are ok however ballast must be internal. No external ballast allowed.
7) No rubbing of your Speedo on other pilots or you will be penalized
8) All other minor rules related to the proceedings of the day will be decided via battle royale the day of the event and later announced by the CD during the pilots meeting.

 

[OribaSJ88]

Might I suggest the 60" class is kept very simple. This has worked well down in So Cal with the Speedo races. We kept things very informal and made the events fun. We had no plans to promote pilots to higher classes - You won nothing but bragging rights. The goal was to keep things simple and fun with minimal expense.

Possible 60" class rules:

1. 60" max wingspan
2. Have fun. (No party poopers)
3. An event is an event regardless of weather. Raining? No lift - We still hang out and have a good time.

I plan to bring a few 3D printed planes to the first event and we can see how they do. I'm signing up Jarron and Rafael, and think they will also have 3D printed airframes. If you want to fly composite, that is fine, but let it be known I will not give up my race line when I'm flying a disposable model.

Hmm, how well will a 3D printed airframe hold up to Los Banos Summer heat?

If we did a race at Weldon, one plyon could be behind the slope. That could be entertaining for someone like me that has not flown much DS at all.

Wayne,

I take your feedback to heart. I would rather the racing class be simple, fun and capable of growth than one that is limited by being too advanced to attract the casual racing pilot. But, looking at the names of a few of those who have expressed interest, I can also see pilots who'll be happy if there's a more advance class of racing. I'll count myself among them. Time will tell and I think we're listening and open to adapting. I'm excited to see where this goes. It has been decades since I've flown in a slope race.

I have been printing a lot 3D-printed models. That's mostly what I fly right now. There's no shade where I fly and it can get plenty toasty on a summer afternoon. I had one made out of PLA warp on a fairly mild day when not covered. I've since move to printing mostly with PETG, it has a somewhat higher softening temperature and prints almost as easily. I recommend bags for the wings, stabs and fuse made out of the shiny bubble-pack-like insulation. I keep them covered when not flying and haven't had a problem since. There are some better, higher temp materials, but I haven't gone that route yet. Good luck if we get a sweltering day at Los Banos. Disposable has its advantages but don't head for my moldie in your quest to win!

Ollie

 

[Wayne]

I remember that hat. LOL

Fun reading the old rules. We really had a great time. We moved to a new slope every event, we held the races about every month during the warmer months. I think we averaged about 20 pilots each event. Most had never raced before.

 

[OribaSJ88]

Fun was definitely had at previous Speedo MoM races, even when they got blown out, and we kept the rules simple.

THE RULES:
1) Have fun
2) KISS
3) All race planes must be the Speedo 1.2M Thermo
4) Stock built up wings only (no sheeted, foam core, etc.) custom covering jobs are ok and highly encouraged to differentiate your plane from the herd.
5) Fuse can be stock, socked, or otherwise modified, reinforced, or repaired. Pilots are highly encouraged to attach a wing to the fuse before launching, although there is no penalty for launching the fuse first then the wing.
6) Ballast systems are ok however ballast must be internal. No external ballast allowed.
7) No rubbing of your Speedo on other pilots or you will be penalized
8) All other minor rules related to the proceedings of the day will be decided via battle royale the day of the event and later announced by the CD during the pilots meeting.

View attachment 23264

I'm probably one of the few people who has a surviving Speedo II. It rocks. I still fly it when nothing else will. Great little plane...it must be 12 or 13 years old now. It I think I paid less than $70 delivered!

Ollie

 

[Wayne]

I think PETG will be fine even on a hot day at Banos. We have tested parts we print in black cars on hot days with no issues. Anything beyond PLA and PTEG starts to rise in cost. Jarron here just printed a plane in pre-foamed ASA, but that filament is $60/roll. Ouch. Heat should not be an issue for it. We have also printed with nylons and CF reinforced filaments. There is also some high temp PLAs that look interesting. VP models uses this on their composite models.

Yep - the Speedos were a great deal. Think they started off at $45 when they first came to the US and slowly got more expensive and lower quality. We had a lot of fun with those.

I remember when @Twyl loaded his up with all of these little tungsten heatsinks he had and then added strapping tape wing tip to wing tip to keep the wings from failing and he threw that plane out into hurricane winds near Bluff Cove and was getting insane speed out the model. Good times. The landing was really impressive as nothing survived as the tungsten obliterated the radio gear.

Twyl you have more photos from that period? I lost all of my photos from then. Maybe start a new thread and post up a bunch.

 

[Twyl]

I'm probably one of the few people who has a surviving Speedo II. It rocks. I still fly it when nothing else will. Great little plane...it must be 12 or 13 years old now. It I think I paid less than $70 delivered!

Ollie

They were a blast indeed. I still have fourish, well at least 4 fuses 3 wing sets and an assortment of parts. I only just recently got back into the hobby after about a decade and it's a slow process of dusting off old planes and finding replacement batteries. Speaking of which I'm struggling to find good batteries for the Speedo.

I remember when @Twyl loaded his up with all of these little tungsten heatsinks he had and then added strapping tape wing tip to wing tip to keep the wings from failing and he threw that plane out into hurricane winds near Bluff Cove and was getting insane speed out the model. Good times. The landing was really impressive as nothing survived as the tungsten obliterated the radio gear.

Twyl you have more photos from that period? I lost all of my photos from then. Maybe start a new thread and post up a bunch.

Wayne you are missed here in SoCal, but I'm so proud of what you've done with Aloft and I'm sure you've injected an amazing energy into the hobby in the Bay area. I have a number of pics including some from the original build nights you started here in SoCal. Not sure if Aloft was an idea that got started from those nights or not, but I recall rarely leaving them without a new piece of gear or a plane. Maybe I'll post some in another thread, but here are a couple teasers.

I believe you are remembering my landing at NorthFace. That's you Jordan, and someone else in the background walking over to investigate my lawn dart. The socked Speedo fuse was perfectly fine, but the ballast decided it had better places to be, and the elevator left the chat completely. We'd all gone to Bluff Cove, but the wind shifted and we hussled over to NorthFace, awesome lift, but the LZ was pure rotar.

 

[Wayne]

That's funny - I now remember that the fuselage had survived, but remember the radio gear being much more "smashed" then in the picture.
Good times!

Great to see you active again Jonathan! We had a lot of fun back then. Hope you are going to stay in the hobby for a while, always loved your builds and enthusiasm and as I recall you are one heck of a good pilot!

 

[Red]

Draft organization and class rules attached in first post

 

[Twyl]

Great to see you active again Jonathan! We had a lot of fun back then. Hope you are going to stay in the hobby for a while, always loved your builds and enthusiasm and as I recall you are one heck of a good pilot!

Thanks Wayne, not sure my builds deserve any credit, but I'm happy to accept your complements regarding my flying skills, perhaps they will balance out the photo evidence I just posted to the contrary.

Draft organization and class rules attached in first post

Disregarding any discussion about how much to regulate or not regulate the races, I had two questions regarding your draft.
1. If lowest score wins, and a 2 cut/DNF equals a Zero, then the pilot with the most DNF's wins? Assuming you want to keep the pilot with the lowest points as the winner, maybe DNF could equal X+1 points, where X equals the number of planes that flew in that race, or is a number otherwise designated by the CD. All other pilots would receive points equal to what place they finished in.
2. What is the point in restricting the wing loading for an unlimited class that also has a max weight restriction? Not trying to be argumentative, just honestly curious as it feels counter intuitive.

 

[Red]

Thanks Wayne, not sure my builds deserve any credit, but I'm happy to accept your complements regarding my flying skills, perhaps they will balance out the photo evidence I just posted to the contrary.

Disregarding any discussion about how much to regulate or not regulate the races, I had two questions regarding your draft.
1. If lowest score wins, and a 2 cut/DNF equals a Zero, then the pilot with the most DNF's wins? Assuming you want to keep the pilot with the lowest points as the winner, maybe DNF could equal X+1 points, where X equals the number of planes that flew in that race, or is a number otherwise designated by the CD. All other pilots would receive points equal to what place they finished in.
2. What is the point in restricting the wing loading for an unlimited class that also has a max weight restriction? Not trying to be argumentative, just honestly curious as it feels counter intuitive.

Good questions, I actually appreciate the participation!

1. Good catch , need to clarify that. DNF would get MAX points, so we should assign a number, something like 5 points. DNF needs to hurt.
2. This comes from the FAI. It is possible to have an unlimited plane with wing area large enough that at 24oz/ft loading it would exceed the max weight. For instance my 4M Alpenbrise falls into this category. For it to reach max WL it would be a 16+ lb airframe. On a long enough course a large plane makes real sense. We need to make sure things don't get out of hand and stay safe.

 

[Twyl]

2. This comes from the FAI. It is possible to have an unlimited plane with wing area large enough that at 24oz/ft loading it would exceed the max weight. For instance my 4M Alpenbrise falls into this category. For it to reach max WL it would be a 16+ lb airframe. On a long enough course a large plane makes real sense. We need to make sure things don't get out of hand and stay safe.

I could totally be missing something here, but in your example doesn't that just make the rule redundant? (i.e. it can't hit the max WL because it would already exceed the max weight) Doesn't WL work the other way around? Take for example the Speedo in my previous post has a 247.8 in^2 wing area (47.2" total wing length, root 6.5" tip 4.0"). A max WL of 24oz/ft would mean the airfames total weight could not exceed 41.3oz or 1171.1g, however at max internal ballast I can get this plane to 46oz/1300g which is stupid and makes little sense, but it is possible. In this case, while it is possible to exceed the max WL, it most likely makes little sense for the pilot to do so, and therefore my question on why the need to regulate wingloading in an unlimited class that also has a max weight restriction.

EDIT: If size getting "out of hand" is what needs to be restricted, than maybe just add a max wing span rather than wip out the calculator or ChatGPT to calculate WL.

 

[Red]

I could totally be missing something here, but in your example doesn't that just make the rule redundant? (i.e. it can't hit the max WL because it would already exceed the max weight) Doesn't WL work the other way around? Take for example the Speedo in my previous post has a 247.8 in^2 wing area (47.2" total wing length, root 6.5" tip 4.0"). A max WL of 24oz/ft would mean the airfames total weight could not exceed 41.3oz or 1171.1g, however at max internal ballast I can get this plane to 46oz/1300g which is stupid and makes little sense, but it is possible. In this case, while it is possible to exceed the max WL, it most likely makes little sense for the pilot to do so, and therefore my question on why the need to regulate wingloading in an unlimited class that also has a max weight restriction.

EDIT: If size getting "out of hand" is what needs to be restricted, than maybe just add a max wing span rather than wip out the calculator or ChatGPT to calculate WL.

Max weight only applies to the unlimited class. The 60” class takes care of itself as your example points out, which is why there is no max weight specified for the 60” class.

 

[Wayne]

Unlimited class can be any wingspan, thus the weight limit. The weight limit would tend to limit the wingspan, but it is sort of a nice solution. Let's say the wind conditions are horrible, a really large plane with low wing loading could be the secret weapon. It does open up the playing field to some interesting options depending on conditions. Yes, you are going to tend to be a smaller plane when the ballast load is required due to the weight limit and wing loading limits.

 

[Wayne]

Quick question - We are allowed backup airframes, correct? This is something I have always seen in MOM racing. Any rules about the use of backup airframes?

Backup airframes I think would be a real advantage to the 3D printed airframes. You could flavor the print to light or heavy lift conditions, or even have a different airfoil with great ease. Swap planes as conditions change. Heck, why add ballast, you could just build enough airframe variations for different conditions. LOL

(I think 3D printed planes will have disadvantages compared to a fully molded, especially in the case of durability, so this could be the perk they enjoy.)

 

[Red]

Quick question - We are allowed backup airframes, correct? This is something I have always seen in MOM racing. Any rules about the use of backup airframes?

Backup airframes I think would be a real advantage to the 3D printed airframes. You could flavor the print to light or heavy lift conditions, or even have a different airfoil with great ease. Swap planes as conditions change. Heck, why add ballast, you could just build enough airframe variations for different conditions. LOL

(I think 3D printed planes will have disadvantages compared to a fully molded, especially in the case of durability, so this could be the perk they enjoy.)

No current plans to prohibit multiple planes. We wanna make it easy.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Unlimited class can be any wingspan, thus the weight limit. The weight limit would tend to limit the wingspan, but it is sort of a nice solution. Let's say the wind conditions are horrible, a really large plane with low wing loading could be the secret weapon. It does open up the playing field to some interesting options depending on conditions. Yes, you are going to tend to be a smaller plane when the ballast load is required due to the weight limit and wing loading limits.

Yeah!

I think it may also depend on the course length unless this is set the ame fo every race.

Doc.

 

[Wayne]

Very true - Long courses really shine for the bigger models. Racing a 60 against a 3 meter is not even a competition, the 3 meter will always win.

 

[Red]

Rules updated in the first post; these are very close to being the final version. Not really expecting anything major from here, only minor tweaks. If you have not signed up, please do so! We are only about 3 weeks away!

Red