Blue Bird servos at Aloft Hobbies

[Konrad]

Now that it looks like KST is destroying their distribution network, it is time to look for another servo brand.

I’ve loved the MKS servo but their price structure didn’t make them a good value for my ships or my style of flying. Futaba doesn’t offer the range of servos I use. And historically I’ve had very bad luck with the Futaba servos. JR, Graupner, and Hyperion are dead brands.

I’ve noticed that a lot of high end distributors are now carrying Blue Bird servos. 20 years ago I’ve used Blue Bird analog servo with adequate results. In the last 5 to 8 years I’ve been using Blue Bird plastic cased digital servos In my EF-1 racers to great effect. I have to admit that I’ve looked at Blue Bird servos as a good sport servo.

Now with the demise of KST I’m looking at the Blue Bird aluminum case digital servo for my performance ships.

I see Aloft Hobbies is carrying the higher end of the Blue Bird brand of servo. I’d like to ask how is Blue Bird with parts support. I want gear sets for my high end servo. I also would like to learn if there are any IDS or RDS options for the Blue Bird servo. (Basically what does the output spline look like).

As Blue Bird is not a new brand of servo I’d like to learn what is your experience with the Blue Bird brand.

Blue Bird

alofthobbies.com

All the best,
Konrad

EDIT:
It looks like KST has reversed their poor marking adventure. KST is again at the top of my vendor list for high performance servos. Blue Birds are great! I just have a lot of gear sets to support a large range of KST servos.

 

[Konrad]

Hum, I see where there maybe some confusion with the nomenclature with the BMS A10x servo. It looks like Blue Bird is not following convention. They are calling out the vertical mount as horizontal. By convention the horizontal mount is what we think of as wing mounting (lay down). And conventional mounting flanges as vertical output spline (pointing up {vertical}).

I wonder if this is a failure in the production run. The assembler put the wrong servo case on the wrong servo body. Or does Blue Bird actually use different nomenclature than the industry standard. Actually if looks like the wrong lable was applied. This could cause havoc with sales and customer satisfaction.

Also as a marketing thing I get cold feet when I see "Stickers" mentioned as a feature in the sales write up.
Really that's one of the few feature one can say about the product.

All the best
Konrad

 

[Wayne]

LOL - The stickers statement is more of a joke than anything. We like to mix a bit of humor into our listings from time to time. And you know Jaron, he likes stickers..

Yes, I asked Blue Bird about the A10X screw up and they told me by the time they spotted the issue they had already done their photography and marketing, so it was too late to fix. Kind of a junky answer, but there you go. They did not make the same mistake on their other servos that come in both layouts.

Yes, we will start stocking the Blue Bird versions of the IDS and other trays. We did not stock them in the past as we did not sell this brand at the time.

I look at this servo:

Blue Bird BMS-127WV 4.8Kg-cm 66.7oz-in 0.05sec-60°

From Blue Bird Model comes the BMS-127WV Digital Servo, ready to effortlessly move your control surfaces. Inside is a beefy metal gear train, riding on brass bushings and a coreless motor for better efficiency. Featuring a super wide voltage range, excellent torque and speed, it'll be a great...

alofthobbies.com

and I am eager to put it in some planes. Wide voltage, metal gears, very good specs and a nice low price. That is a very tempting servo to me. We also have a high torque version in the 125, you give up some speed for the torque. It will take me a bit to get used to the naming. LOL

 

[Konrad]

It will take me a bit to get used to the naming. LOL

Yep, I see that. The A10 for an 8mm thick servo, a 12x for a 10mm thick servo?
I wonder will the A10 forever have the improper nomenclature?

I have a mini-Q on the build board. I wonder if I should convert to Blue Bird?

Maybe add an "LOL" to the listing, so guys like me (without a sense of humor) can be in on the joke.

 

[Wayne]

Yeah, would be nice, huh?

This begs the question, when you all are looking for servos, what is the first criteria you are looking at?

Since I am a glider guy I usually start with the width of the servo. 6, 8, 10, 12mm or larger, and then start looking at torque, then speed.

 

[Konrad]

That's a good question. I think reliability. Now since there is no requirement to report failures or time between failures, much of this relies heavily on reputation.

Now on my prop racers (high vibration) I do try to track service life and pull servos before they fail. I think I've said this before I like cored motor in high vibration application.

Next up I like to use the largest servo that will fit. Or more to the point the largest and strongest gear box. I tend to hit the surfaces during storage and landings. Also larger gears will withstand flutter much better.

Next for me is servo speed. It is rare that I've notice blow back so torque is rarely an issue. I also try to use 100% to 120% of the servo motion to take advantage of whatever torque there is. Now I often do notice the servo speed in how well the servo follows my stick movements. Slow servos give me fits with pilot induced oscillations. Also if using gyros slow servos can really hamper the gyro's response.

So torque is near the bottom of my criteria for a servo.

True, these criteria are all interrelated so nothing really is black and white when it come to servo selection.

 

[Wayne]

Yeah, depending on what I am building I take a bit different approach. I generally am building gliders, so first of I am considering if I want a low weight plane or a heavier plane. From there my servo selection will be based on that. From there I look at servos that will fit the space, or smaller. I really don't run any servos slower than .12 on the speed for much the same reasons you stated. They just make a plane feel sluggish. I prefer to be at .10 or faster. I never cheap out on the elevator servo, that is the one servo that can not fail. I'll also go after the best speed here. For ailerons and flaps I can cheap out if I like, or give up some speed, but I like a quick elevator servo.

I think we all put way too much torque into our flight surfaces as it is. I have never noticed a servo that didn't work well due to torque limitations. To me the higher torque value is mostly an indicator of servo robustness. (Is that a word?) Like Konrad said, most servo abuse for me happens on the ground or transporting the plane. Not in the air.

If I am going for a feather weight I will use a plastic geared servo, but otherwise go for metal as I really hate replacing servos.

 

[Konrad]

That's a point often over looked. With "Crow" you can compensate for most wing servo failures. That is have a controlled crash. But I still want high quality servos for my flaps as I'm often driving these at 100° to 110°. Any slop in the gear train and mount just takes away from the pleasure of flying as the controls feel like they are wondering. Other than combat ships I try to use the best I can afford in the way of servos for my gliders.

Foam ARFs are about the only place I'll use less than great servos. And every time I do I'm sorry for having done it!

The only time I really look at weight is when I have servos in the tail. This is because the tail moment arm can add ounces to the model! But again the control response is often worth the added weight. (I hate bell cranks and snakes)!

 

[Diceman]

I ordered the X08 look a likes, once I get them installed I'll give some input on how they do.

 

[thenated0g]

Now that you may be cutting back on nimh packs and i have discovered how awesome using 2s on stuff is i look for something in the 9-20g size range that will do 8.4v.

 

[Diceman]

I have been switching over the Spencer 2s packs, they are awesome! I highly recommend them.

 

[Wayne]

For smaller gliders I think we will offer the 18500 and 14500 sized 2S packs in the future.

Nate - We will be able to keep the NiMH packs for now. It will be a while before we see our restocking though. I'll keep my eyes out for a 2S 9 gram. So far I like these a lot:

Blue Bird BMS-127WV 4.8Kg-cm 66.7oz-in 0.05sec-60°

From Blue Bird Model comes the BMS-127WV Digital Servo, ready to effortlessly move your control surfaces. Inside is a beefy metal gear train, riding on brass bushings and a coreless motor for better efficiency. Featuring a super wide voltage range, excellent torque and speed, it'll be a great...

alofthobbies.com

I think we may have to added a special pricing on the Bluebirds for logging in on the site. (They made us raise our prices for MSRP reasons.)

 

[Konrad]

I've just noticed that Aloft has some Blue Birds on sale!

I have to say that I've been very happy with the Blue Bird digital servos.
I'm using them across three servo sizes (families). Within these sizes they are performing as good or better than others of their size and price range.

I didn't think it was possible to say this; but in my 1 to 1.5 meter sport ships I actually like the Blue Bird A10 ever so slightly better to the KST X0-8. This is because I'm noticing the 1/3 faster servo speed. I've heard some say that the resolution of the Blue Bird is noticeable "stepped". Running the A10 against my KST X0-8 (V3, and V5) I see the A10 is just as smooth. But noticeably faster. On the bench and in the airframe they are great.

What concerns me is their rated power. The A10 has an 6mm motor while the X0-8 has a 7mm motor. Now the A10 claims to be both faster and much more powerful than the X0-8. I can confirm that the A10 is faster. So the only way I know for the A10 to have more power is if it has a huge current draw. I'd hate to think that the smaller motor is being pushed so much harder than the bigger on in the X0-8.

I'm currently setting a mini Q for the X0-8 and I'm going to use the A10 for the ailerons in my Magnus 1.5 meter racer. I hope to harness the speed and not actually tax the little motor in the A10.

The BMS 101DMG has been fantastic in my novelty sud 1 meter ships and in my rubber band to R/C conversion of many 24" Guillow and Comet kits. They work great on a one cell lipo. The output shaft does have more play that I'd like but for a plastic cased 4.4 gram servo they are more than adequate. My only concern would be in using them with pull pull set ups.

The BMS 1XXWV servos are great for fuselage servos in ships all the way up to 2.5 meters. On the bench out of the box they are as good as many of my $40 servos. But as they don't have ball bearings on the output I don't expect them to be as durable as the $40 servo. But they are great as a sport servo particularly if you are upgrading your on board radio to 2 cell lipo.

All the best,
Konrad

Edit: Motor size

 

[Wayne]

The Bluebirds have their place, but IMHO they don't yet equal the KST or MKS servos. So the lower price is works well for them. (Be sure to log into the store to see your lowest prices, this goes for a lot of the products on our site, sometimes the savings can be large.)

Don't get me wrong, I am building a plane right now with BlueBirds as I want to have more personal experience with them. The 125 and 127 are really tempting to me for the price. I'm eager to see how they perform over time. They look very much like an MKS servo, but they have a very different output, so was not able to use an MKS tray with them. I'm trying to get in the Bluebird servo trays for IDS etc.

With the 101 I am a bit guarded. We had some planes built with them, and had a couple of issues. We are working to get the Dymond D47 servos in here for that purpose. I know they also have some issues, but the 1M DLGs really are built around those servos. I have yet to find anything for a fair price that is up to that task.

 

[Konrad]

What concerns do you have with the 101DMG? I'm flying them in a fast 980mm elevon slope ship. I have over an hour of fligh time and some rough landings. They are working great on a single cell lipo.

I have a set of D47 in my F3-RES 2 meter glider driven by 2 Life cells. Again these are working great. But they aren't metal geared. Unless there is a strong demand for the D47 I don't see the need for duplification of servos. The D47 is dated larger and plastic geared. Yes, I still have a dozen or so NIB and will still use them as I loved the performance from my speed 400 racer days.

Spoiler Drag link

I hate spoiler! With that out of the way here is how I like to actuate spoilers. This set up is known as a drag link. It maintains a possitive connection with the spoiler and servo. Does not need or use any springs or magnets. Adjustments are easily controled by the radio's end point and /or...

forum.alofthobbies.com

 

[Wayne]

The D47 is the magic for the 1 meter DLG at this time. I have seen many servos come along and try to do the job better, but seems the D47 is still king. I am all ears for something else. I currently need about 90 servos for my next order of Iago and Hawk mini DLGs we have on order.

The issues we have had with the 101 is some consistency issues (poor centering on some) and the rare DOA. Perhaps not that big a deal when you are building your own plane as these issues will be caught in the build, but when you are a manufacturer installing them into planes this is a much larger issue as they do not have time to test each servo and confirm full working order. The D47 have their issues too, but I think it either works or does not work. This is easier to identify rather than the poor centering issues.

These tiny servos all seem to have some issues with the exception of the KST and MKS options, but the prices limit the use of those servos.

 

[Konrad]

Sorry to hear that you are seeing issues with the BMS 101DMG. I have 8 and no issues running on a single cell lipo.

15 years ago I had a lot of their analog (blue case plastic) 4.4 gram servo. These had 20% to 25% failure rate on 5.1v linear BEC. The Cirrus brand 4.4 had about the same failure rate. But the GWS Pico 5.4g had a rather low failure rate below 5%.

I'm not aware that KST and MKS have anything (yet) in the 4.5 gram class of servo. The MKS DS65K is in the same size but at 50% more weight and 5 times costlier it is out of the running as a replacement for the BMS 101DMG.

MKS DS65k Servo - 2.2Kg (30.55 oz-in), 0.154 sec

MKS-DS65k Servo

alofthobbies.com

The Dymond D47 is in that 4.5 gram class but it is larger and does NOT have metal gears. What I love about the D47 is the side clearance for the wire lead. I'm not aware of anything in the 4.5g class that comes close to the BMS 101DMG. Ether in the single cell or HV power class. If we go much smaller in size we start to see the horrible open linear servo.

The BMS 101DMG is not in the same size class as the MKS HV6100, KST X0-8 or BMS A10.

All the best,
Konrad

 

[Konrad]

The issue I had with the older case design was that the drive to the feedback pot was poor. The shrink wrap band used to hold the case together was a poor idea. With the BMS 101DMG Blue Bird has added 2 case screws. If having centering issue look at the seating of the pot to the output gear. Look for the servo leads causing stress in the case halves causing uneven pressure on the pot.

 

[John in Boston]

Konrad, I just now bought 2 of the Bluebird BMS-101DMG servos for my 28.5" span Grumman F4F Wildcat build.
I would've bought more, yes indeed, but I am now maxxxed out with the ever-loving wifey re: ANY model airplane-related purchases.
Well, at least until your next post!

 

[Konrad]

Is this a Gummy band to R/C conversion? I love doing these Guillow Stick and tissue reworks.