Alpha 2.0M build "log" (mostly questions)

[gnichola]

For the past many years I have mainly been doing 3D helicopters, so my building experience has been buying and bolting. I have started doing some sloping and started with a Mini Mach. I also have an Ahi, but now that I have plans to go to the Sunset event I want to make sure I have something to fly (Goat Rock where I have been flying is a bit sketchy when landing). So, I just bought the Alpha 2M from Aloft. So, not being that much of a builder, and having a glider with no instructions at all, AND seeing that I couldn't find anything about it on the Pipes and the Tubes either...well, I am here to share the experience and get some questions answered as well as hopefully helping out the next guy.
FIrst question. The attached picture shows the everything that came with the kit and there are a pair carbon tubes that are maybe a little over a foot in length. What are they for? My only thought is that they are for the wing servo linkage, but each linkage will be maybe 2" long, meaning there seems to be way too much.

 

[Konrad]

Those are the push rods for the motorized glider (Rudder, Elevator).
You should contact Aloft to get this corrected.

You might want to scan a lot of other glider build threads, they need not be of this glider. This will give you some ideas as to what needs to be done. Things like CG location will not be correct. The general assembly will be pretty typical. (This AlphA 2 looks to be based on the 2 meter Typhoon. This might help your Google searches)

RCRCM TYPHOON 2M INSTRUCTION MANUAL Pdf Download

View and Download RCRCM Typhoon 2M instruction manual online. Typhoon 2M tools pdf manual download.

www.manualslib.com

Take a look at some of my builds here on Aloft's Forum. (scan the pages for pictures. The wall of text post often go into too much detail or are off subject discussions).

What is "Pipes and Tubes"?

P.S.
Contrary to the instructions posted, try to use wing servo trays. Also fabricate a full length nose servo tray. That little plywood square is a bad joke.

P.P.S.
This is a hobby grade product not a consumer grade product. This means it isn't an open the box and fly. It is aimed at someone who wants to add their own functionality (Ideas) to the airframe. It is a kit on which one can bring to light ones unique engineering interpretations. (Or put another way there is more than one way to skin a cat. My apologies to the cat!

 

[gnichola]

Thanks Konrad, I found the Typhoon here (and the manual is linked in a bit friendlier format) https://www.rcrcm.com/products/typhoon-x-tail . It does look amazingly similar.
"Pipes and Tubes" is sort of a joke term for the internet. Someone had described it using those terms.

 

[Konrad]

Looking at that manual I see it doesn't real address much. Like how to actuate the elevator.

 

[gnichola]

The elevator actuator is pre-installed, as are both push rods.

 

[gnichola]

The one thing I found about the elevator was that the left side was tight toward the rear and rubbed the rudder. The attached picture is looking down the rudder at the elevator, and at the bottom of the picture (front of elevator) you can see a bit of light shining through, but the part behind the rudder slot was tight and made it a bit tight to move. I lightly sanded the inside edge and it moves much more freely now.

 

[Konrad]

OK, snakes on a plane. So no need to contact Aloft for push rods.

Good job fitting the parts. This is a big part of modeling.

Nice photo of the elevator bell-crank. I wonder why the sales site doesn't show this. I would think that would be a selling point.

 

[Wayne]

Yah, huh?

Yep, looks like the guys grabbed the control rods for the electric version, or maybe the manufacturer sent them with the plane.. Glad it was just extras for you.

Any questions, just ask! We all tackled our first molded glider and ran into the same questions, so fire away as needed.

 

[gnichola]

So then @Wayne, for the glider version can you tell me what they provide for the wing pushrods? The kit I have has a bunch of short threaded rods and I am not sure if I should use those glued into a short piece of carbon or make some longer threaded rods and use those.

 

[Konrad]

Most of us use the threaded rods as couplers. I like to use 2 mm jam nut. Others will use CA to keep the rod and adjusted length in place.

Mini Q

Wayne, I know I said this model would wait, and it likely will, but after looking closely at the canopy, I had to work on the fit of it. Basically the canopie needs carefull trimming all the way around to get it to fit the recess. I did need to remove the springs in order to easily check the...

forum.alofthobbies.com

Also see page 3 of the Typhoon manual

 

[Ryanenc89]

The carbon rods don’t belong with this kit, samething happen to me. I had to sand a decent amount on the elevator to prevent any rubbing. I maiden my 2.0 last weekend with 30mph winds. I thought it would be a slowish flyer..... i was wrong, the plane rips and turns pretty tight with a little rudder action. CG at 81mm 55oz all weighted up.

 

[gnichola]

The carbon rods don’t belong with this kit, same thing happen to me. I had to sand a decent amount on the elevator to prevent any rubbing. I maiden my 2.0 last weekend with 30mph winds. I thought it would be a slowish flyer..... i was wrong, the plane rips and turns pretty tight with a little rudder action. CG at 81mm 55oz all weighted up.

Interesting, my plane looks just like that and I have the same truck.

Would you mind telling me if you throws somewhat match the ones at the end of this docuemnt? https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1058/5794/files/Typhoon_manual.pdf?13071965946515525179
Also, do you maybe have a picture of your radio setup you could share?

 

[Ryanenc89]

Interesting, my plane looks just like that and I have the same truck.

Would you mind telling me if you throws somewhat match the ones at the end of this docuemnt? https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1058/5794/files/Typhoon_manual.pdf?13071965946515525179
Also, do you maybe have a picture of your radio setup you could share?

Out of town right now, when I get back in a few days I’ll take some measurements of my control surfaces and update you. I’m running full span ailerons with dx8 tx using kst x10 Servos. The typooon looks close on specs but I can’t confirm. It was little breezy last weekend and almost impossible to land with crow braking without getting sucked back, about 30% of flaps only is all it need to float straight down in place.

 

[gnichola]

I started to install the wing horns and noticed the flap is not glued down from the horn towards the root for about six or so inches. I assume I can just throw a bit of glue on this and not worry about it?

 

[Konrad]

That's what I did with the delamination of my Strega flaps.

I'd like to see the OEMs using some of the more aggressive adhesives rather than what looks like their normal lay up epoxy with a lot of Cab-O-Sil added.

 

[Wayne]

That is not good. I'll relay this to the manufacturer to avoid any repeats.

Yes, I will suggest some epoxy with a bit of Cab-O-Sil or flox mixed in. Flox is more of less finely chopped cotton. I see the glue joint in there..

If you like we can get you new wings! Email us and we can get that going for you. I'm pretty upset to see this with one of our planes!

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Alpha?

Actually thats true as it was the first allrounder I designed. But...the old typhoon not only lives on...it is multiplying!

Bugger, its a long time since I designed that model. Good to see it still goes well - despite the construction problems...now where have I seen that before...?

Doc.

 

[Konrad]

Admittedly I don't have much experience with composite models. TJIRC appears to have much better understanding of proper lay ups than RCRCM.
I do see a problem with composite bonding. This is a problem with all composite lay up, regardless of OEM. As this is a known issue it is paramount that the OEM use the best possible adhesives regardless of cost, and practice proper surface preparation. I see far too many composite joint failures, regardless of cost, where the bond fails long before the fiber matrix or even balsa wood fails.

I know there are adhesives mainly in the marine and aerospace industries that are far better than the epoxy Cal-O-Sil mixture we see in most glass slopers. Unfortunately these require low temp refrigeration for storage. Not a user friendly type of adhesive.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

I'm now looking at industrial adhesives.

Its true to say that the chemical bond between Epoxy/Cabosil and the glass or carbon/epoxy surfaces is bad, because there actually is no chemical bond. There will only be a chemical bond if the parts are glued together when the epoxy is still very green. Otherwise its just surface roughness and the penetration of the gluing agent into the surface topography thats providing the adhesion. That also depends quite a lot on the type of epoxy used.

Most industrial epoxies do the same job, and in the same ways, simple Cabosil/epoxy, but they are formulated and filled to do the job far better.

Maybe you could think of it like the difference between a common lizard's feet, and a Gecko's feet. Most lizards can climb the wall, but they dont do too well on glass windows. Gecko's are still lizards but they can run up glass panes.

Cheers,

Doc.

 

[Konrad]

This is why a structural repair of composites is often difficult or impossible as the repair is often far inferior to the original (wet) lay up.