Aeroic stuff

[Doc J]

Hi Guys,

I thought I'd start a new thread for anything Aeroic that might interest my growing number of loyal supporters.

News: Aufwind Magazine.

From the next issue, I'll be writing for Aufwind magazine in a column entitled Gliding and Design. Take a look if you can—it's a publication well worth reading, as there is a lot more going on in model gliders in Europe than there is in the USA.

News: Aeroic Newsletter.

I now publish a monthly newsletter with stuff about Aeroic Composites, what we are doing, new planes, events, etc. Each issue will also include an article that is hopefully useful or at least interesting.

If you are not already on the newsletter mailing list and would like a copy sent, please ping me or email aeroicplanes@gmail.com with your email address. I don't want to take up Aloft's space with heavy files every month, so I'll send it individually.

I have attached the November issue, but that will be the last issue to be published here.

Cheers, and thanks again for all the support.

Doc J.

 

[apriliamille]

do you have a plane in your roster that doesn't need a slope and nor built for mach speeds? maybe in the 1.5-2.5 meter range sub 1K price?

yeah sorry its fresh in my brain while im building the cubic but something that is for down in the valley or a field that you can just take out of the car and chuck it into the air cuz well that is a nice good looking area to toss a plane

 

[apriliamille]

i had one. i had the privilege back in the day of getting to be stationed at the army base in vicenza italy and i brought an rsvr back with me to the states. I fell off a ladder 15 feet onto concrete 12 or so years ago and fractured my hip so since I then had a "glass hip" i sold it as there was no way on this green earth was i gonna ever get bed ridden again for months, so i sold the bike (i dont think i will never wreck its when will i have the next wreck as i have wrecked a few bikes in my earlier days"

up in the thread you asked for a suggestion and this was my suggestion. a thermaly type of plane since it seems the majority of the Aeroic planes are slope oriented. now for the demand of one in the market, I have no clue, you would have to ask Wayne or who ever you know in the retail side here in the states how those type of planes sell vs the slopers

 

[Doc J]

i had one. i had the privilege back in the day of getting to be stationed at the army base in vicenza italy and i brought an rsvr back with me to the states. I fell off a ladder 15 feet onto concrete 12 or so years ago and fractured my hip so since I then had a "glass hip" i sold it as there was no way on this green earth was i gonna ever get bed ridden again for months, so i sold the bike (i dont think i will never wreck its when will i have the next wreck as i have wrecked a few bikes in my earlier days"

up in the thread you asked for a suggestion and this was my suggestion. a thermaly type of plane since it seems the majority of the Aeroic planes are slope oriented. now for the demand of one in the market, I have no clue, you would have to ask Wayne or who ever you know in the retail side here in the states how those type of planes sell vs the slopers

I'm sorry to hear about your accident, April. I did something similar many years ago when I was trying to balance a turbine aboard a British Navy Destroyer. Due to other work going on, the damn engine room floor was greasy —I knocked a couple of vertebrae out of kilter - it was nasty - I had to sleep on a bloody door for a month.

Back to the Biz: I think the big problem for a designer of composite models who is used to designing, as you say, airframes more oriented to sloping is that the construction of a 2~2.5M all composite flat field thermal model would probably be a bit heavy at this size. That is probably why those Ukrainians et al. make those gorgeous Balsa/carbon/glass hybrids. Those guys have it down to fine art, but I'm embarrassed to say I have never even thought of doing something like that. The same applies to DLG.

I did design a DS model that I'm sure would have been pretty good, but after a lot of thought, I decided not to make it. I know I can control the safety of my designs, but I can't tell who is going to buy them. Now, the latest DS models are almost transonic, and to me, that is not where I want to go.

Rather than designing, I have spent the last year slowly but surely refining the factory processes and SOP procedures to improve general quality levels of fit and finish. I think I have it up to a pretty good level now, though it still needs to be carefully monitored, so I have a bit more time to think about new ones.

I am working with another company right now to design a couple of balsa models, - which is frankly such a labour of love. Sometimes, I feel a bit like a criminal as I'm actively selling glass designs, yet I love Balsa so much!

Nevermind!

Doc.

Cheers,

Doc.

.

 

[apriliamille]

your response makes sense. im not an engineering type and figured "well just do this" was the answer

 

[markspark]

I'd like to see an electric glider designed for flatland power-off aerobatics. Something optimized for F3A precision type aerobatics, not for slope, 3D, scale, VTPR, or powered aerobatics. It should be able to quickly power climb to altitude to reenter the 'box' for the next sequence of power-off maneuvers. A non-scale glider optimized for this would probably look a bit different, just like the powered F3A planes look different from other types of RC planes. It doesn't look like anyone has designed one yet, so it would be a good challenge.

 

[Doc J]

I'd like to see an electric glider designed for flatland power-off aerobatics. Something optimized for F3A precision type aerobatics, not for slope, 3D, scale, VTPR, or powered aerobatics. It should be able to quickly power climb to altitude to reenter the 'box' for the next sequence of power-off maneuvers. A non-scale glider optimized for this would probably look a bit different, just like the powered F3A planes look different from other types of RC planes. It doesn't look like anyone has designed one yet, so it would be a good challenge.

Hi,
Mark - is there a market for this type of plane? Is there such a competition? If so how may people do you think fly this type of model?

I have never heard of it.

Thanks for the reply.

Doc.

 

[apriliamille]

would Mark's suggestion be an "amped up" f5b / f5f Enigma or Avionik type that could do knife edges, 4 pt rolls and what not across the "box"

 

[Doc J]

would Mark's suggestion be an "amped up" f5b / f5f Enigma or Avionik type that could do knife edges, 4 pt rolls and what not across the "box"

I'm not sure, Mike, but I'm also not sure how many people would fly this type of model. With a roughly 10,000 US$ CNC/Mould investment, I must be careful.

Cheers,

Doc.

 

[apriliamille]

would have to talk with Wayne and who else in the retail side in regards to this class

 

[Doc J]

Typhoon Toccata description and specs, etc.

Typhoon Toccata 2M (80”):

Toccata basic information:

This is the replacement for the now classic Typhoon that I designed with RCRCM over 15 years ago. Originally intended as an introduction to moulded models, it has been the first model for many, a trainer, and a good flying, reliable, and easy-to-install model for over 2,500 slope flyers.
The new version's construction and aerodynamics have been improved, while the basic dimensions and curves that distinguish the model and make it a classic remain. The all-new Toccata is lighter, stronger, faster, and slower on landing than the original; it maintains its easy-to-install radio and has the added benefit of better flying performance, especially in light wind flying, acceleration, and energy retention.

Toccata is electric-ready with the removal of the nose cone.

Specifications:

Span: 80” (2.0M)
Length: 37.375” (950mm)
Wing area: 237 Sq” (15.3Dm)
Wing aerofoil: JH817
Tailplane aerofoil: JH10SYM
Controls: Ailerons, Flaps, Elevator, Rudder
Servos: 10mm

Designer: Dr. James D. Hammond

 

[markspark]

Hi Doc,
Not sure of the size of the market. There are some folks doing it informally, including me. Most are flying scale Swifts and Foxes or powered slope aerobatic models and looking for the next level of precision and performance.
I got interested after the powered F3A rules changed to require constant speed during maneuvers. Some folks, including myself, thought that it took away from the graceful style of precision aerobatics. Flying the routines with gliders brought that style back and added a level of difficulty.
There are aerobatic competitions for scale towed gliders, but they are short duration and performance limited on what and how many maneuvers they can do. I'm not aware of precision aerobatic competitions for electric gliders yet. Might be a “chicken or the egg” thing, or a "if you build it they will come".

 

[markspark]

Hi Mike,

An "amped up" f5b/f5f Enigma or Avionik type" isn't particulary suited, except for the climb rate. That would be like using a pylon racer to fly the powered F3A routines.
An 'amped up' F3B would probably be closer.

I picked up an Avanti 3.3m from Aloft and that has a bit better precision and retains energy better for more maneuvers than the scale like Swifts & Foxes.

I'd love to see what a purpose built electric precision aerobatic glider could do.

 

[Doc J]

Hi Doc,
Not sure of the size of the market. There are some folks doing it informally, including me. Most are flying scale Swifts and Foxes or powered slope aerobatic models and looking for the next level of precision and performance.
I got interested after the powered F3A rules changed to require constant speed during maneuvers. Some folks, including myself, thought that it took away from the graceful style of precision aerobatics. Flying the routines with gliders brought that style back and added a level of difficulty.
There are aerobatic competitions for scale towed gliders, but they are short duration and performance limited on what and how many maneuvers they can do. I'm not aware of precision aerobatic competitions for electric gliders yet. Might be a “chicken or the egg” thing, or a "if you build it they will come".

Hi Mark - I'll be honest with you. I think this type of glider flying would have an extremely limited following.

Most slope people seem to care about:

1. Speed.
2. Agility
3. Durability
4. Cost

Maybe not in that order, for many, cost is at the top of the list.

I'm not sure about flat fielders or electro freaks, but I bet it's not that much different.

But thanks a lot for the suggestions.

Cheers.

Doc.

 

[markspark]

Yep, probably is a smaller market, but I think it can grow.
Hard to tell how many folks buy scale aerobatic gliders or electrify aerobatic slope gliders and fly them on flat land. There's a lot more flat land sites than slope sites.

Thanks for the consideration. I would love to see a clean sheet design, but I understand the business & investment risk side of things.

Any ideas on what would make a great flat field electric precision/pattern aerobatic glider are welcome. In a different thread, of course.

 

[Doc J]

Yep, probably is a smaller market, but I think it can grow.
Hard to tell how many folks buy scale aerobatic gliders or electrify aerobatic slope gliders and fly them on flat land. There's a lot more flat land sites than slope sites.

Thanks for the consideration. I would love to see a clean sheet design, but I understand the business & investment risk side of things.

Any ideas on what would make a great flat field electric precision/pattern aerobatic glider are welcome. In a different thread, of course.

I'd think something akin to the indoor aerobatic models, but with extended wings, etc., some 3D bulking of the fuselage, a larger size, and a bit longer nose/tail moments. Keep it light for calm conditions but ballastable for heavier air. Probably a slope ship like Kulbutin would work but it would have to be pretty light.

My six penn'orth

Doc.

 

[Wayne]

There are a number of "alpine" scale models that I would think could be made with a lighter layup that might work well in this category. Who knows, maybe a lighter version of Jame's new MU would do the trick. The MU is basically a design that replaces the Swift and Fox heritage.

 

[markspark]

I like the narrow and tall fuselage of the Kulbutin as it resembles the powered F3A models. I haven't tried it because I’ve found that larger wingspans (3M+) and longer fuselages seem to work better for this type of flying.

I've also found that heavier works better after going to bigger batteries/motors for more climbing power. Wasn't expecting that.

In F3A/precision style flying stability is number one. Must be rock solid and locked in. Gyros are not allowed. The glider version adds energy retention as a very desirable feature.

I think Wayne is on to something with the alpine style models, but scale ships in that size range seem to bleed off more energy during maneuvers. Possibly due to the very wide fuselages. Maybe an Alpenbrise with a slightly taller & longer fuselage.

I'll probably start a new thread to better describe this type of flying, see what others have tried, and gauge interest. This may not be the right forum since there seems to be mostly slope flyers on here. But I'll give it a shot.

 

[Wayne]

I will say that a large glider may look like it is going slow, but they carry so much energy it is silly. I have never flown a light scale model though.. Mine have all be slope beasts. Great fun for big acro.

 

[Doc J]

I will say that a large glider may look like it is going slow, but they carry so much energy it is silly. I have never flown a light scale model though.. Mine have all be slope beasts. Great fun for big acro.

That's pretty much what I design for, Wayne.

I have to admit I'm not that familiar with flat-field flying. That said, on the few occasions when I have flown flat fields using other people's models, I have been complimented on my ability to find and exploit thermals—though I have no idea why I should be good at that.

It's a pity my slope flying is not a bit better...

Doc.