Aeroic Alpenbrise 4M build

[Doc J]

I think you may notice there is a "under camber" to both the top and bottom of his airfoils. Some might call this pressure recovery, or double cusp, etc. Whatever you want to call it it helps keep the airflow attached, trailing edge responsive and sure james has his other little tricks. But I like his airfoils a lot.

Tricks? Wot, Me?

Actually this one only has undercamber with no "Overcamber" as it was designed for BIG PLACES rather than pretty short slopes. But Wayne is right - I have designed and used a lot of Double Cusp type pressure recovery aerofoils on my models. Why? because they do actually work.

Thanks to all for the interest.

Doc.

 

[Jedster]

A good days flying today. Snapflap works very nicely as does snap reflex. Also a slight change in the CoG has made it much more neutral, although I think I need to go just a tad further, with not so much down ele required when inverted, the rolls are better now too and the square loops squarer etc.. Slowly pushing the envelope, managed a loop which was 325' from bottom to top (that's after the dive), but I reckon there's plenty more to go there, I just don't want to break it too soon. , although she didn't seem fussed in the slightest. She even seemed happy enough with an inverted square loop (not too square, slightly rounded corners, let's not be too silly yet). Stall turns were nice and high - always pleasing. I'm enjoying this model and am ashamed to say I didn't even fly my previous 'go to' model. I do wonder how far I can push the standard version though. I do have an rx with a G meter (not currently installed in this model) so I could check what G I'm pulling, but then I don't know where the limit is (currently unballasted).

But here's a question for Doc. Why are the servo wells where they are? I reckon if they went 5mm towards the l/e it would give just a bit more room for 10mm servos and make the install easier (for the aileron anyway). The only down side I can think of is the control rod would be slightly longer, but given how short they are I can't see that would be a major problem. Or does the linkage then start to interfere with the surfaces too much?
I think I'd also like to see cheap and cheerful bubble wrap 'wing bags' etc. included, there appeared to be a little what I can only assume was transit damage on the model when I collected it (and another I saw). Not noticeable on the slope, but a bit annoying when I've spent that sort of money. Although it won't be long before I get worse damage on the underside from landings etc..

 

[Doc J]

A good days flying today. Snapflap works very nicely as does snap reflex. Also a slight change in the CoG has made it much more neutral, although I think I need to go just a tad further, with not so much down ele required when inverted, the rolls are better now too and the square loops squarer etc.. Slowly pushing the envelope, managed a loop which was 325' from bottom to top (that's after the dive), but I reckon there's plenty more to go there, I just don't want to break it too soon. , although she didn't seem fussed in the slightest. She even seemed happy enough with an inverted square loop (not too square, slightly rounded corners, let's not be too silly yet). Stall turns were nice and high - always pleasing. I'm enjoying this model and am ashamed to say I didn't even fly my previous 'go to' model. I do wonder how far I can push the standard version though. I do have an rx with a G meter (not currently installed in this model) so I could check what G I'm pulling, but then I don't know where the limit is (currently unballasted).

But here's a question for Doc. Why are the servo wells where they are? I reckon if they went 5mm towards the l/e it would give just a bit more room for 10mm servos and make the install easier (for the aileron anyway). The only down side I can think of is the control rod would be slightly longer, but given how short they are I can't see that would be a major problem. Or does the linkage then start to interfere with the surfaces too much?
I think I'd also like to see cheap and cheerful bubble wrap 'wing bags' etc. included, there appeared to be a little what I can only assume was transit damage on the model when I collected it (and another I saw). Not noticeable on the slope, but a bit annoying when I've spent that sort of money. Although it won't be long before I get worse damage on the underside from landings etc..

Hi Jed,
good to hear you are enjoying the model.

So far the record for the S version is 11g in a sharp pullout from 361 Kmh (Recorded)The SS version is stressed higher.

Servo well could go a tad further forward not doubt - as I see now. Most people seem to use IDS so maybe thats a litle easier. I'll change it when I make new wing moulds. Also I think the control geometry could be changed a bit.

As to the wing bags, unless they are lined with soft material, they will actually do more damage to your wings than they prevent, due to scuffing of sand and stuff present at most flying sites. Problem is the nice tailored wing bags cost quite a bit and I can say that so far 95% of people dont want to pay the extra.

Cheers,

Doc.

 

[Jedster]

Cool, in the UK control horns come fitted so IDS isn't really an option (without leaving the remnants of the horn etc.). IDS may help with the linkage if the servo was further forward as you say, I reckon even with horns it wouldn't be a problem, it may need slightly more cutout in the top wing, but that could still be covered by the supplied shrouds which I cut down (shortened) a certain amount anyway.

I don't think 11g is anywhere near what she'll take, I've done 12g with a Glider-IT ASW15 and that's the standard (not double carbon) version and the wings bend somewhat on that when pushed. (Lovely model, great fun.) I can see I'm going to end up putting that rx with the G meter in this to find out what she's doing so long as I'm not otherwise using it.

I was really thinking of cheap 'wing bags' (and for tailplane and fin / rudder) mostly for transportation to dealers. This sort of thing:

which looks like little more than bubble wrap which has been joined with a bit of heat. I agree, I wouldn't suggest including proper wing bags, as you say, the extra cost will put some off, but a few quid (bucks) to protect a model you've spent time perfecting from some scratches / dings in transit seems worthwhile to me. Unfortunately the rudder came with a dent and scratch in the rudder

and both tailplanes had a few dents like this

both noticed when I went to collect from Neil and mentioned to him. Another one was similar.

Or maybe it's just a case of having words with your packers to pack more paper or whatever around the various components so they can't bang into each other. (Just trying to help you and future customers - and maybe help ensuring my next model is perfect.)

Alas I didn't get to fly it today, I had 2 nice flights with the ASW15 and then rain stopped play before I could fly this - very annoying. I can see they are going to be my 2 go to models! May be time to thin out my fleet.

Thanks

 

[Wayne]

James has been on the hunt for some nice wing bags for a fair price. He got some of the samples, but they were not ready for prime time. Often times you will see that we offer the bags either with the plane, or as an option. I know Revoc makes some really nice bags for this plane, but the German dealer does not allow Revoc to sell them to anyone else.. (I know, totally silly, especially since I have been a dealer for them longer than the German dealer has even existed. I do hate these sorts of deals..) There are other companies that will make custom bags for you.

Those bubble style you showed really should be avoided. They really wipe out a paint job.

-Wayne

 

[Jedster]

Maybe the simple answer is just better packing from the factory then. Although I'm not sure the bubble bags would do as much damage for transit from factory to dealer / customer as not having them has done. Of course what the customer does with them isn't a dealers problem. Having bags as a dealer option wouldn't have helped in this case as the damage was done before it got there and in honesty, I wouldn't have paid for Revoc, I have my own preferences for wing bags once I have the model. Thanks for the comments.

 

[Wayne]

No problem..

I may be to blame as I have outlawed any of my manufacturers from shipping composite models in bubble wrap. We require models shipped via a special measures, and since doing so the damage rate has all but ended. I would imagine the same method is being used to ship the same planes to the UK. With this said the dents you spotted are probably not shipping damage. Shipping damage will usually but much more violent. Those small dents may have happened at the manufacturer or at the distributor. (Bubble wrap leaves thousands of round scratches in the paint during international shipping.)

 

[Doc J]

Thanks for the comments, guys, I'm looking at the packing.

As to stress, more info can be found on my website: https://www.aeroiccomposites.com/alpenbrise-a157-4m - I am told that these speeds and G measurements have now been far exceeded - but at least it is a written record of hard G's on a normal production S type model.

However, I think that testing wings to breaking point is something much better left to me in my studio, rather than pushing "unusual G's" on a bog-standard slope model in flight - just to see what such dynamic provocation will result in. This could be a slippery slope - if you'll excuse the pun - the results of which might just end up in the loss of the model and possible danger to onlookers.

I have not published any more Speed/G test data for exactly this reason.

Cheers,

doc.

 

[Jedster]

Just an update, I believe Wayne was right, the minor dents in my tailplane would most likely have been done before it was packed, I recall now when it was brought out they were well packed in plastic and taped up. The wings and fuz were brought out unwrapped.

I also agree that publishing G data could be seen as a target which may end badly, so it does make sense not to publish (or share). Suffice to say even the S version seems very strong and I enjoy flying it too much to risk doing anything too silly.

Thanks.

 

[Red]

My son Ryan has fallen in love with my Alpenbrise. Rightly so, it is a fantastic flyer, right at the top for favorites.

Anyway with a huge help from Doc, Ryan was able to get one of his own. He picked the colors and designed the scheme. The factory put his name on it so that’s pretty cool.

We are starting build tonight with the goal of a maiden at Los Banos later this month. Of course it will get the full compliment of top of the line Tomas Liu Studio servos and hardware.

 

[jakem]

My son Ryan has fallen in love with my Alpenbrise. Rightly so, it is a fantastic flyer, right at the top for favorites.

Anyway with a huge help from Doc, Ryan was able to get one of his own. He picked the colors and designed the scheme. The factory put his name on it so that’s pretty cool.

We are starting build tonight with the goal of a maiden at Los Banos later this month. Of course it will get the full compliment of top of the line Tomas Liu Studio servos and hardware.

Awesome!! Ryan has got to be stoked!!

 

[Red]

Awesome!! Ryan has got to be stoked!!

Very much!

 

[Chris]

Beautiful !!! LOVE the colors!

 

[Doc J]

My son Ryan has fallen in love with my Alpenbrise. Rightly so, it is a fantastic flyer, right at the top for favorites.

Anyway with a huge help from Doc, Ryan was able to get one of his own. He picked the colors and designed the scheme. The factory put his name on it so that’s pretty cool.

We are starting build tonight with the goal of a maiden at Los Banos later this month. Of course it will get the full compliment of top of the line Tomas Liu Studio servos and hardware.

It's an early birthday present from Julia and I.

There is nothing better than Tomas TLS stuff to fit it out. I like Red's term "Internal jewelry" because that's what it is.
Like my old toolroom instructor at Hawkers used to say: "It should look like it's spun by the light of a diamond" And that's what Tomas does.

I'm sure Ryan will fly the sheet out of the plane once it's been maidened. There's nothing like a crazy young guy with a lot of confidence on the sticks to see what a model can actually do!

I wish I could be there to see it go.

But alas.

Doc.

 

[Red]

A little more work done tonight. Left wing ready to close up.

 

[Red]

It's an early birthday present from Julia and I.

There is nothing better than Tomas TLS stuff to fit it out. I like Red's term "Internal jewelry" because that's what it is.
Like my old toolroom instructor at Hawkers used to say: "It should look like it's spun by the light of a diamond" And that's what Tomas does.

I'm sure Ryan will fly the sheet out of the plane once it's been maidened. There's nothing like a crazy young guy with a lot of confidence on the sticks to see what a model can actually do!

I wish I could be there to see it go.

But alas.

Doc.

The maiden is all his on this one

 

[gnichola]

Sweet looking!

 

[purview]

Beautiful !!! LOVE the colors!

stone grey superbly added the yellow. how is the bottom designed apart to classic stripe pattern?

Doc's factory can achieve customer demands.

 

[Red]

stone grey superbly added the yellow. how is the bottom designed apart to classic stripe pattern?

Doc's factory can achieve customer deman

stone grey superbly added the yellow. how is the bottom designed apart to classic stripe pattern?

Doc's factory can achieve customer demands.

 

[Chris]

Beautiful Ship!