1986 Memories of Sunset Beach and Davenport ISR

[Doc J]

Hi Guys - my old friend Chris Greengrass sent me a bunch of old pics (Look at the quality!) from our 1986 trip to the USA. Some of these were taken at Sunset Beach, while others were of the '86 ISR.

Quotes Chris: "We represented our country and took away a lot of trophies in 1986 in the USA. Great memories, we even had an A team van, bus sense! The model design was mine, Sigma. ( sum of the bits work sum of them don’t ) Without James Hammond making a true and straight mould, it would have been rubbish! They were really fast when loaded to the maximum weight we could go to, and the racing against three other pilots was intense. We came in 3rd, 5th, and 7th place and I received the design award. The model was made out of Kevlar (a bulletproof vest material), and the wings were vacuum-formed (Bagged) with plywood and epoxy. They needed to be strong to survive the landing without any means of slowing down with 11 pounds of lead onboard. They were also great fun to fly."

Such a great time!

Doc

 

[thenated0g]

I was 10

 

[slopenutz]

I was 12 y/o and had just built my very first plane, a Gentle Lady. Ahh, good memories of that plane. Been quite a lot of money and balsa debris since then. The learning curve sure was steep in those days.

 

[Yotaman1985]

I wasnt around yet... Looks like an awesome time!

 

[OribaSJ88]

I remember those competitions with very fond memories. There was an amazing evolution of tech in those years. It seemed like every year or two there was a major step forward in sailplanes, construction techniques and radio tech. I didn’t compete in 1986 but wish I had. I competed both before and after—a pile of parts attested to my efforts. Man-on-man could be hard on planes.

Quite surprisingly, I found an old Slope Soaring News that said I placed well in 1989…with a 60” sailplane . Most designs were unique back then and built by the flier. With no disrespect the evolution of F3F and F3B that has come since, I can’t tell one broomstick with wings and a v-tail from another without the name printed somewhere on the airframe! That said, they’re light years ahead of what we had back then.

Don’t let these guys make you feel old, Doc…they’re doing the same for me

Ollie

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Hey Ollie - with a mental age that never passed 16, I never feel old. I loved those times. No way to buy a competitive plane - there were none available commercially so we were all trying to squeeze every inch out of our own new world-beating designs. I have been doing the same ever since.

Good to hear I’m not the only one with a long memory!

Doc

 

[OribaSJ88]

By the way, Doc, there used to be a video of your trip available on YouTube. Your pix jogged my memory. It captured your guy’s trip pretty well and is a nice time capsule of the competitions of yesteryear. I wanted include a link to it but it appears someone has flagged it for a copyright violation. Perhaps you know the author and can ask to make it available again? Scroll to the bottom of the following webpage below and you’ll find a link under the “Archive” section.

FAVONIUS... welcome

Eclectic site mainly about model R/C gliders but including many other topics from Romans in Kent and Windmills to Wildflowers

www.favonius.com

Ollie

 

[Hoqiam]

Just to keep things in perspective, I was 62 in 1986. A large number of my slope flying time was at Torrey Pines, and I
do not recall seeing another flyer there. Full scale yes but no modelers. I think that I started flying there in the late 1950s.

Tom

 

[OribaSJ88]

I stumbled a cross this video on YouTube showing a couple of heats from a competition at Davenport. This captures what I remember from those times. It has the excitement of a tight race along with the often tough life, and sudden death, of sailplanes in man-on-man races. it even has an RnR Nova for fans of the type. It's hard to tell if Rich Spicer is the pilot. Good stuff! Ollie

 

[Doc James Hammond]

I stumbled a cross this video on YouTube showing a couple of heats from a competition at Davenport. This captures what I remember from those times. It has the excitement of a tight race along with the often tough life, and sudden death, of sailplanes in man-on-man races. it even has an RnR Nova for fans of the type. It's hard to tell if Rich Spicer is the pilot. Good stuff! Ollie

Wow - that had me jumping up and down in my chair!

Bring back the ISR!

Forget F3f - let's have FUN!

Thanks, Ollie - it quite made my day!

Doc.

 

[OribaSJ88]

Wow - that had me jumping up and down in my chair!

Bring back the ISR!

Forget F3f - let's have FUN!

Thanks, Ollie - it quite made my day!

Doc.

I'm glad you enjoyed it, too, Doc. It's around the time I was involved with slope racing, but I don't think I flew in that year's competition.

Yeah, I agree with you. Let's bring back man-on-man racing! I'm not sure about using an F3F sailplane which, when fully equipped, goes for north of $3000. It's a bit steep for my blood, especially given the life expectancy in that kind of event. For a while, there were 1.5 meter/60 inch class races. There were also a one-design-class of races that used the Speedo sailplanes exclusively. I'm open to ideas. I'd love to get back into slope racing, but F3F just doesn't give me the thrill that I used to have in those man-on-man events.

Ollie

 

[Doc James Hammond]

F3f is for Chikkin Sheet Wimpos! BORING!

Talking of smaller models, I know Red was contemplating a 60" moulded ODR style model - not sure how far he got with it.

I think for the long course, Davenport races my Alpenbrise 4M (157") model would be hard to beat. Ready to go, it would be less than 3K but still a bit of an outlay. For a shorter course, my Spada would be pretty good - again, a lot less than 3 K.

These days, most people have a bit of a beat-up 3M or so mouldy hanging around somewhere in their "hiding from the wife" cupboard, and they'd be pretty good.

Seriously, if there were to be an ISR again, we'd sponsor as we could, and I'd certainly be there with a couple of weapons despite the 10,000-mile commute.

I was egging Wayne on to think about that a couple of years back, but given the recent unstable situation, I don't hold out much hope.

It sure as hell would be good to do it all again, and it's for sure on my bucket list - and I bet quite a few others too.

Doc.

 

[OribaSJ88]

F3f is for Chikkin Sheet Wimpos! BORING!

Talking of smaller models, I know Red was contemplating a 60" moulded ODR style model - not sure how far he got with it.

I think for the long course, Davenport races my Alpenbrise 4M (157") model would be hard to beat. Ready to go, it would be less than 3K but still a bit of an outlay. For a shorter course, my Spada would be pretty good - again, a lot less than 3 K.

These days, most people have a bit of a beat-up 3M or so mouldy hanging around somewhere in their "hiding from the wife" cupboard, and they'd be pretty good.

Seriously, if there were to be an ISR again, we'd sponsor as we could, and I'd certainly be there with a couple of weapons despite the 10,000-mile commute.

I was egging Wayne on to think about that a couple of years back, but given the recent unstable situation, I don't hold out much hope.

It sure as hell would be good to do it all again, and it's for sure on my bucket list - and I bet quite a few others too.

Doc.

Doc,

Clearly you've been giving that idea some thought! I have a personal affinity for smaller sailplanes so a 60" class works great for me. I'm pretty up front about my bias . A ODR class could help to bring some new(-ish) blood into slope racing. Simplicity and availability of an airframe might attract more interest. SBSS, the local soaring club, used to have a 60" class back in the 80s. It allowed any 60" sailplane, surface loading (including the stabs) no more than 16 oz/sq-ft and I think that was it. It flew at Davenport as part of contests that also included an unlimited class.

Ollie

P.S.: There's no 3m F3F racer hiding in one of my cupboards but there is a 60" sailplane that would make a great racer hanging on my wall

 

[Red]

I recognize Dave Castetter flying in the blue jacket in the first race. I have a soft spot for the ISR too. My first was the '84 RCM Trophy races as a spectator...man so cool! I was hot to bring the ISR back, but a job change sucked up all my time and sort of took the wind out of my sails. I did contact the previous club that put it on and got their permission as well as contacted Big Creek and got initial permission from them as well, so it could happen. I would be interested in helping, but I don't think I could shoulder the whole thing at this point.

As far as 60" ODR, great idea. I have a design done, fuse plug is made and ready to mold. Some interest might spark me to work on it again lol. Low wing V tail, some more info here: https://forum.alofthobbies.com/index.php?threads/odr-designs.3838/

 

[OribaSJ88]

I recognize Dave Castetter flying in the blue jacket in the first race. I have a soft spot for the ISR too. My first was the '84 RCM Trophy races as a spectator...man so cool! I was hot to bring the ISR back, but a job change sucked up all my time and sort of took the wind out of my sails. I did contact the previous club that put it on and got their permission as well as contacted Big Creek and got initial permission from them as well, so it could happen. I would be interested in helping, but I don't think I could shoulder the whole thing at this point.

As far as 60" ODR, great idea. I have a design done, fuse plug is made and ready to mold. Some interest might spark me to work on it again lol. Low wing V tail, some more info here: https://forum.alofthobbies.com/index.php?threads/odr-designs.3838/

Hey there Red,

I see more than a passing resemblance to an RnR Nova in those ODR designs . They look great. (I borrowed the Nova fuse mold from Rich Spicer ages ago...but that's a story for another day). That said, I'd never want to add to anyone's workload. I've noted that you've got quite few planes in the fire, to torture a metaphor a bit.

I've never owned one, but Aloft sells a TJIRC Magnus. My guess is that it would make a pretty solid ODR sailplane. I think Doc also has a 60" design, though Aloft doesn't seem to carry it. Perhaps there's another design that could be enlisted for the cause. I'm all for keeping things simple, making it (relatively) inexpensive and minimizing any hurdles to get people to participate. 3D printing might offer another option, although the durability is questionable.

As far as the contest management goes, I'd definitely lend a hand. I mentioned that SBSS, South Bay Soaring Society, used to tack on their 60" event to another competition which included unlimited racers. Perhaps that's an option for piggybacking on an existing F3F event. NorCal Slope Soarers used to hold a few events every year, but I haven't seen anything scheduled for this year. The complaint back in the day was that the man-on-man events required too many helpers. A heat with four pilots required 8 helpers, four flaggers at each pylon.

It's a good discussion. I'd love to see a bit of life injected back into man-on-man slope racing.

Ollie

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Hear hear!

Doc.

 

[Red]

Please forgive the pics of pics, but here is my old Nova (with my dad holding it) and my Mark Allen designed 60” Nighthawk. The Nova for sure influenced my ODR design.

The Aeroic 60” is the Sessanta, and it scoots. It would be a great 60” racer, but does not meet the ODR rules with its molded wing. If 60” racing were to be revived, I think it has to be cheap and the ODR rules, as dated as they are might be the place to start.

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Woo...some blasts from the past there.

Nice colours - easy to follow.

Doc.

 

[Hill Hobbit]

Mark P, who was 3rd at this race, joined me and my mate Simon on Malvern’s east slope last week to do more trimming on his new F3f model. The conditions were the best we’ve had this year, and we were all ripping it up with a goodly amount of ballast on board. He was most impressed with the Toccata’s top end speed, and the fact it took all I was giving it without complaint.
His opinion was that it looked as if I was actually trying to break it…

 

[Doc James Hammond]

Mark P, who was 3rd at this race, joined me and my mate Simon on Malvern’s east slope last week to do more trimming on his new F3f model. The conditions were the best we’ve had this year, and we were all ripping it up with a goodly amount of ballast on board. He was most impressed with the Toccata’s top end speed, and the fact it took all I was giving it without complaint.
His opinion was that it looked as if I was actually trying to break it…

The key point is... with 30% less wing area, was it faster than the F3f?

Doc.