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S6R and S8R configuration questions and concerns

arizona98tj

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Hello,
Good to see many recognized names from other Taranis forums.

I realize the SxR should be located on top of CG. I would like to be able to see the LEDs on the receiver and in order to do so, the center of the SxR would be 6" behind CG. The fuselage is about 38" long with the CG being 14" back from the nose. Is this going to cause major issues with the SxR doing its job? My other option is to cut a window in the top of the wing and mount the SxR under the wing. Or....am I making to big of a deal being able to see the SxR LEDs?
 

Scott Page

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Hello,
Good to see many recognized names from other Taranis forums.

I realize the SxR should be located on top of CG. I would like to be able to see the LEDs on the receiver and in order to do so, the center of the SxR would be 6" behind CG. The fuselage is about 38" long with the CG being 14" back from the nose. Is this going to cause major issues with the SxR doing its job? My other option is to cut a window in the top of the wing and mount the SxR under the wing. Or....am I making to big of a deal being able to see the SxR LEDs?

You are probably making a big deal out of the LED's :eek: -- but the unit will function just fine as you describe it. Any issues with placement can be ameliorated using the gain setup.
 

arizona98tj

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You are probably making a big deal out of the LED's :eek: -- but the unit will function just fine as you describe it. Any issues with placement can be ameliorated using the gain setup.

Thanks Scott....I'll mount it where I can see it.

"ameliorated" -- I had to look that one up. :O

Edit: Changed my mind....I put it under the winger after all.
 
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u2builder

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I would like to hear a little more discussion about Auto Level Mode gain. I know the gains can be adjusted in the Congfig program or probably by LUA.

I also understand that the Channel 9 pot perhaps controls how fast ALM responds but not the ultimate control throw. I can see that it does not control the control throw but it is hard to observe that it controls the speed of the response. I have read that the setting of the pot is typically lower for ALM than stab, say around 20-30% as opposed to 50% or so. This seems odd because when one changes mode, for example in a panic, it would be hard to change the Change 9 pot quickly/accurately. I know that some have programmed things so that the overall gain in ALM and Stabilize mode can be set differently or on different pots. But none of this is even mentioned in any Frsky instructions. Frsky does not mention using Channel 9 in conjunction with ALM, only stabilization, unless I have missed it. It seems odd that Frsky would have designed a system where the gains for two functions work differently but are controlled by the same switch/pot.

On some of my models the ALM throws are really large (because they are set by self check at high rates) compared to the normal control throws when flying at low rates, and as a result the ALM corrections are quite violent no matter where I set Channel 9 pot. On one very agile wing switching to ALM caused an immediate vertical spin to the ground. It seems necessary to go to Config and reduce the gains in ALM to tame this response,

I would like to see more discussion of this.
 

iflylilplanes

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I have just flashed the firmware in two S6R's using the transmitter module port method, for some reason the STK works while programming the S6R but won't work in flashing the firmware, hence the transmitter method. So far so good, transmitters have been upgraded to 2.2.1 firmware and S6R setup has been programed into both, S6R installed in aircraft, all servo directions fixed and now working correctly, went through the channel 12 aircraft setup calibration, and guess what, it worked perfectly, everything works as it should, I'm happy as hell.

My only reservation is, I set the aircraft control end points after the ch12 setup, I'm not planning on flying the plane for a couple of weeks yet (still finishing a few adjustments in construction). Is it an issue when the end points are done?
 

Too Many Toys

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The Self Check is the very last thing you do (and it must be done properly) before flying.
Maiden flight.

If you made any changes after an initial Self Check it could influence what the Rx may do.
You can do a SC previously as the Rx won't function correctly without one for bench testing etc.

But before Flying and after any, all adjustments you must complete a new valid self check.

Even after any future trimming and tweaking or a crash you need to do a SC again.
After that, it's set and forget ~ if something changes (and things do) ~ do it again.
 

bbflyer

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As of 1/8/17 the most recent firmware version for the S6R is v. 171204 which was released on 12/27/17. As of 6/1/18 the most recent firmware version for the S6R is v. 180417 which was released on April 17, 2018. The most recent firmware for the S8R is S8R, Version 171213. The most recent firmware for the S8R is Version 180328 . In order to play on a level field and avoid the uphill battle I recommend that receiver firmware (even new ones) be updated with the latest firmware as the first order of business. At this time the firmware is available from https://www.frsky-rc.com/s6r/
released the SD card will be updated and these changes will be included.

Scott - hopefully this is not a duplicate but when I went to download the firmware for the S6R, the version number seems to have been updated to 180328.

I did a quick search for 180328 (2018-04-17) and did not see anyone else mentioning this.

This forum has been very helpful.

Regard,
Bob
 

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Kitchenman

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I'm struggling to get my s8R and new X10 running FrOS to work with me...

What are the input and output maps I should be using for the 4 stabilizing controls.

Ultimitlly my goal is to have Auto self level on the momentary switch.
Calibration on the side pot
stabilization and auto level on switch E
Hover and knife edge off... or on switch H

Do I set these up starting on aux1 or 9 or. ....... help. I have gotten them to work but never where and how I want.

I'm just struggling to even get the stabilization to switch. I did it in open. But there's a lot more details explinantions there I come for plus radio days so these programble systems are very new to me.
 

Hank

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The issues I was having with my S8R on the big gasser have been partially fixed. They were not caused by the S8R receiver but by a loose sparkplug cap and crappy servos that did not center properly. I fixed those two problems but now I'm having trouble with the engine. So, no chance to try the S8R on the gasser. But my S6R on the glow plane has been running fine in stabilization mode. The only remaining issue with the Autolevel on the glow plane is finding a correct setting for the autolevel when calibrating it. The last time I set it the pitch was way too high and the plane would roll to the left sharply. It is tricky with this plane because it is a small delta wing plane. I will try again and use a level.
 

Too Many Toys

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If your plane rolls sharply when you engage Auto Level it is typical of what happens when one of
the surfaces needs reversing in the Gain Settings - Direction Compensation tab, PC or LUA.

As it is a Delta configuration as you noted it can be tricky.
If you had to use Ch reversing/s in the Tx as it is to get it to fly normally, it may have been the case that
the servos needed to be swapped and you compensated with incorrect Ch reversing in the Tx.
I'm not saying this is the case here. Try the Config reversing first.
There are many possible combinations that only half work (Off - Auto) but only one that fully works
in both Off and Auto Level. Use Auto Level when testing as it is easier than Stability to see the result.
My Blog in RCG has some notes ~ https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/sho...R)-Auto-Level-Receiver-Trouble-Shooting-guide
It is very easy to incorrectly check a Delta and think it is all OK for both Off and ALM, take your time have
a break/coffee then come back and check it a second or even third time.
Good Luck.
P.S. if it works OK in ALM, Stability will be exactly the same, but much easier to check in ALM.
 

Zipper1949 Wally

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First of all, I have studied and read all posts regarding setup of the S8R. I am self aware that you can do everything right and still make mistakes, ergo redo and start from scratch. I'm throwing my recent experience out there for comment and any concrete suggestions regarding diagnosis of a problem or conversely accept the futility of trying to make the S8R work with a gas engine airplane.

I have an 85" Midwest Giant Sweet N Low powered by a DLE 35RA. I posted a build blog in another forum which shows the build as a tricycle either / or tail dragger plane. This is my first gasser. I've been flying off and on for over 47 years.

The firmware is the latest, v. 180328 set in convenient mode. I am using OpenTx v. 2.2.1 on a x9D+. With two servos for elevator, one had to be reverse compensated using the PC software. The default gain settings were not changed. Bench testing verified all functions worked properly. Self-check was performed by locking out movement of the throttle using the channel over-ride function. Hi-rates were on; all channels were connected and exercised at the extremes as prescribed.

I had 3 good first flights without turning on the auto-leveling feature. On the 4th, using the 3-position switch for channel 10, it was turned on. The plane changed attitude just a bit, and I chalked that up to receiver installation. The auto-leveling was then turned off. I know that aerodynamic stability might not be the same as the physical installation. That is why the pc software allows for a few degrees of attitude adjustment to compensate. Making a mental note for adjustment, I kept it flying. Fortunately, a experienced gasser pilot and friend was flying it at the time. All of a sudden, in normal mode, the rudder locked hard left. We didn't know it was the rudder till it was landed. The rudder lock was intermittent, at least twice. My friend's skill and some altitude kept it from crashing. On the ground while taxiing back, we saw the rudder lock over for a few seconds. Honestly, this really spooked me. I rechecked all the setup functions making sure the Rx is using the latest version upgrade and again thoroughly bench tested. I left the gain setting at the default values and performed the Self-check again. The blue light does come on initially as expected. All is ready for another flight, but I decided to switch the Rx to a standard Rx, a spare V8R-II I had.

I've searched and read about possible ignition interference as a cause, but right now, I'm not sure I know how to diagnose the problem. Hank's experience posted here on the forum comes closest in similarity. Perhaps taxiing around to make sure vibration or ignition interference is not the problem. I had the Rx installed on two plywood plates, both are on grommets to try and isolate vibration. I also thought this would allow for minor attitude adjustments like a four post table.

This sport plane flies well under normal circumstances. Honestly, this is my testbed as I hoped to use a stabilization system in a scale P51 I'm building. Crashing a $3000 airplane is not an option. Having a little self-leveling on a future warbird seemed like a good idea at the time, but right now I'm not so sure. I'll look at your suggestions for diagnosis but I am searching for alternative auto-leveling gear. I'm wondering where the S8R is at regarding it's development and application to gassers compared to other stabilization systems on the market. It's been suggested I look at HobbyEagle's AS3 Super 3 system.

Vibration? Interference? Software bug? I just don't know right now. I'm wondering what the developer's would say about this problem and what their recommendations would be? I just need an assignable cause before I move forward with the S8R.
13b Finished Trike.jpg 20180825_154327.jpg
 

Hank

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If your plane rolls sharply when you engage Auto Level it is typical of what happens when one of
the surfaces needs reversing in the Gain Settings - Direction Compensation tab, PC or LUA.

As it is a Delta configuration as you noted it can be tricky.
If you had to use Ch reversing/s in the Tx as it is to get it to fly normally, it may have been the case that
the servos needed to be swapped and you compensated with incorrect Ch reversing in the Tx.
I'm not saying this is the case here. Try the Config reversing first.
There are many possible combinations that only half work (Off - Auto) but only one that fully works
in both Off and Auto Level. Use Auto Level when testing as it is easier than Stability to see the result.
My Blog in RCG has some notes ~ https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/sho...R)-Auto-Level-Receiver-Trouble-Shooting-guide
It is very easy to incorrectly check a Delta and think it is all OK for both Off and ALM, take your time have
a break/coffee then come back and check it a second or even third time.
Good Luck.
P.S. if it works OK in ALM, Stability will be exactly the same, but much easier to check in ALM.
Too Many Toys, I checked the servo orientations and they were always correct. My problem is that I calibrated the autolevel with the plane off-level, intentionally for pitch up and unintentionally for roll left. The plane must have been tilted to the left slightly when I autocalibrated but I could not see it because I had a lot of pitch up. I intend to use autolevel only for handlaunch. I will recalibrate more carefully next time and try it again.

The stabilization function has been doing wonders to the controlability of my delta wing. It is a pain to fly without it, especially in windy conditions.
 

Too Many Toys

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~
~
Vibration? Interference? Software bug? I just don't know right now. I'm wondering what the developer's would say about this problem and what their recommendations would be? I just need an assignable cause before I move forward with the S8R.
If the SXR was in OFF mode the rudder lock-up should not have happened,
I don't really recall anything like that from RCG's. How was your Failsafe set, did you use Custom and if so
what do you have set ? FrSky added extra vibration damping specifically for Gassers a year or so ago, and
you can add extra Mass and Damping using metal weights and soft mountings. Heli gyros use this technique.
If you add a lot of weight it's important to wrap tape around the SXR case so it does not come apart if bumped hard. If your Self Check - Stick Calibration was not done correctly it can cause odd behavior like sticking or
jerking or locking surfaces. In fact that is the primary symptom if people have not done the SC correctly.
 

Scott Page

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First of all, I have studied and read all posts regarding setup of the S8R. I am self aware that you can do everything right and still make mistakes, ergo redo and start from scratch. I'm throwing my recent experience out there for comment and any concrete suggestions regarding diagnosis of a problem or conversely accept the futility of trying to make the S8R work with a gas engine airplane.


I've searched and read about possible ignition interference as a cause, but right now, I'm not sure I know how to diagnose the problem. Hank's experience posted here on the forum comes closest in similarity. Perhaps taxiing around to make sure vibration or ignition interference is not the problem. I had the Rx installed on two plywood plates, both are on grommets to try and isolate vibration. I also thought this would allow for minor attitude adjustments like a four post table.



Vibration? Interference? Software bug? I just don't know right now. I'm wondering what the developer's would say about this problem and what their recommendations would be? I just need an assignable cause before I move forward with the S8R.

It may or may not be worth consideration - but I've have found the SXR to seems to become wonky when supplied power is low. I have not played with this observation or endeavored to replicate it - but twice on the bench I got bizarre spontaneous surface movement and both times the Rx battery I was using for setup needed to be recharged. I did not get any telemetry lost or signal loss warnings from the Tx - so I believe the connection was solid. There was no excessive vibration because no motor was running.
 

Wayne

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Low battery will cause issues with the servos, probably not so much the S8R, but anything is possible.

I'm going to suggest you pull the S8R and maybe pop in an RX8R-PRO into the same airframe. Do some more ground testing to make sure this is not a wiring or servo issue.

Why the pro receiver? It is designed to work with ignition systems. We have certainly seen some issues with ignition noise recently as FrSky products gain popularity into the larger and larger aircraft.
 

Zipper1949 Wally

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S8R diagnosis of Problem with Gas Engine

Wayne, Scott, TMT, Thank you for your thoughtful comments. My goal is to reproduce the occurrence in a controlled manner. This would give an assignable cause. The trouble is lack of diagnostic tools. Your comments to a test plan that I came up with would be appreciated. This will take time to implement and test priority is key to finding the answer quickly.

Initial Response to Comments
Scott, Wayne, Regarding battery / power – I am using a 2 cell 6.6 v 2500 mah LIFE Ed Nano battery for the Rx. After 3 flights on one day, I recharged and put in 356 mah. I considered that an exceptional result. For the second day, the 4th flight, the Rx and the 1800 mah LIFE ignition battery were recharged. The ignition battery also recharged a very low amount. Is a temporary high current draw possible while in flight? How can this be diagnosed as the cause?

TMT, Regarding Loss of RSSI and Custom Settings – No warnings were given. The default loss of signal was custom set by early thinking perhaps incorrectly. The following values were used. Some I can see now were wrong. Changes here are worth testing.
Channel 3, Throttle at -75 (Just above idle)
Channel 4, Rudder at -25 (Just a slight ¼” deflection)
Channel 7, Engine Kill switch at -75 (Must have been planned for something else because engine would have turned off. This is worth testing.)
Channel 9, Gain at +25 (The gain would be increased passed center; effect not clear.)
Channel 10, Flight Mode at -100 (This would force auto-level mode on)
Channel 11 Trainer Mode at +100 (Set on SG switch, this would turn on/off slave control, but no Tx was connected.)
Channel 12, Self Test at +100 (Set on SD switch. This would activate self test only if 3 x’s passed center. However, SA switch sets to an Over-ride to Channel 12 down to -100 when throttle is active.)

TMT, Regarding Self-check method used – I set the SA switch to Channel 3 override for the throttle at -100 to ensure that I don’t bump the throttle while doing a Self-check. After exercising rudder, aileron and elevator, I switch on the SA switch and move the throttle past 25%. I then turn Rx off; radio off and then back on. Rx turned on and all functions checked again after blue LED turns off.

Wayne, I agree that using a hose clamp on the spark plug (all I can find on the net) or changing Rx’s is worth testing to checking for RF interference assuming the S8R is susceptible and the RX8R-PRO is not. Should this be set up as a Master or Slave or by itself? Obviously stabilization would be gone unless it is installed and set as a back-up redundant Rx.

Planning Diagnosis steps. (This will take some time to implement.)

1. Taxi plane on ground exercising throttle but not taking off for about 5 minutes. Repeat taxiing while switching Channel 10 full down (ALM on) and full up (ALM off). Monitor Rx voltage on Tx to see if there is any blips.

Purpose: See if problem is re-producible and see if there is any loss of Rx power.

2. Taxi plane on ground and use a metal can over the antenna to block signal. Check function of custom set RSSI as currently set and repeat with changes.

Purpose: To see what plane would do with loss of signal and impact of custom setting.

3. Attach hose clamp on spark plug to see if it is an RF problem. (Seems solid now but worth trying) Repeat taxing around.

Purpose: To see if RF is contributing to the problem. (I don’t have any equipment to use)

4. Install video camera inside and observe LED while taxiing. (Yellow light vs. green light vs. red light observations). I have a Range Video goggle and some small cameras to try.

Purpose: Assuming vibration, check LED status as it is now and see if yellow LED can be used to diagnose vibration problems.

5. Re-install Rx on metal plate replacing top plywood. Install using vibration mounts.

FYI, I ordered vibration screws and anti-vibration plate separately from Amazon to try a new configuration used for other flight controllers. About $8.00 each. Re-test taxiing w/ video camera to observe effect. (See pictures.)

Purpose: Assuming vibration, to see if there are any LED status changes with different mounting systems. Use yellow light as a diagnostic tool to show improvement.

6. Find and test engine anti-vibration mounts taxiing around. (Currently the engine is installed solid on stand-offs to the firewall.)

Purpose: Assuming vibration and LED is giving clues, use yellow light to show improvement.

7. Install different Rx’s V8R-II, (because I have one) RX8R-PRO Repeat taxiing around and observe changes.

Purpose: Assuming choice of RX is the cause, this would give insight as to whether the S8R is the cause focusing on vibration or RF as assignable causes.
Anti-vibration Mounts 2.jpgAnti-vibration Mounts.jpg
 

Too Many Toys

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Re: Throttle on Self Check ~
There was an official comment from FrSky a while back, Throttle Up to Exit the Self Check is Not needed.
(Because for a long time there was an incorrect assumption that raising the Throttle ended the Self Check)
But they do say don't move the Throttle when doing the Self Check. (But never elaborated any further)
They also added to Quick Mode, if the Throttle "is" raised slightly when you initiate
the Self Check it will prevent the Self Check from commencing, it won't start.
This should prevent an accidental triggering of the SC while flying.

Added: With testing in the above ^ ^ ^ ^ post you might try the Tx in range test mode to reduce the signal.
And as the Rx also transmits telemetry it probably won't like having the antennas blocked for too long
with a can or Alu foil etc. And if you go down that track you may have to Gnd the can for a good result.
The Tx can detect a faulty or broken Tx antenna and has a warning specifically for it.
With the Rx I don't know if it will actually get hot enough to damage the telemetry part as it is fairly
low power, but maybe worth remembering, same goes for a broken Rx antenna, the Rx may not like
that for too long either. Some smaller VTx units can tolerate a broken or No antenna for quite a while
without harm and others will burn up in a minute or so, a very hot day will make it worse.

Under normal conditions the SXR plastic case is fine, but if you add weights to if for damping it
could come apart after a heavy bump or high G force.
In cases like that or even in unusual mounting positions it is a good idea to wrap some tape or
heatshrink around the Rx case to prevent it coming apart and the PCB falling out.

If the Rx floats around outside the case you could be in trouble because your "Level" reference has moved.
 
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JEngel

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I need some help guys. I have a s8r and can not get the gyro to work. I am using a taranis plus x9d limited edition 2.2.1(cca71808) opentx and have updated the rec firmware to 180328. I then went step by step using RCdiy setup page on s6r/s8r I went through all the steps in order and when done the rec works as if the gyro is off I get no movement of the servos when i move the rec. I have ch9 setup with gain+curve I have ch 10 setup with 3pos switch -100/0/+100 I have done the self check moved all servos to there limits powered down /up and servos move per trans but move/shake rec and servos do nothing. The yellow led on rec flashes showing movement but again no servo movement what am I missing? any help would be greatly appreciated

20180915_113537.jpg20180915_113609.jpg20180915_113659.jpg
 

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